KingBird50

I've heard they are trying to get select are insurance????? What the heck does that mean?

coryk

Separate* - doing this from an iPhone is a pain.

KingBird50

LOL ok now it makes sense. I hate it when my phone does that as well!

FlyJSH

Carl,

We who have been around a while need to understand who we are trying to educate.

Your point is valid, and those of us who have evaluated contracts before understand how bad that is. But we are dealing with two groups of people: the "I gotta feed my family" even if it takes food out of your mouth folks, and the newbies who don't know any better.

I respectfully suggest you spend some time explaining to the newbies why said section is so horrendous. If you do, at least the smart ones will understand. Your post was like when I asked my Dad how to spell a word, and he said look it up. Really, it is no help. Some of these folks are like children. We need to educate them. We can lead them to water.... but it is better if we explain why they shouldn't die of thirst.


As for the "gotta feed my family" folks, they just don't get that there will always be somebody who will work for less and scream "I gotta feed my family"..... at least until THEY are undercut.

CaptainCarl

Fair enough FlyerJSH, I will give it a go (but by no means should my word be taken as the gospel).

The first part starts out innocently enough; "...the right to determine the methods, processes and schedules of operation" is pretty standard amongst all airlines. They decide how they want to run the Company, fine with me.

And then they spring it on you; "...the right to alter, change, or discontinue its operation, partially or completely." That doesn't make me feel very safe. If things aren't going the way they'd like, they can "discontinue" the operation of the Company? Man, what about my job? Does my voice get heard in this decision? Are you management? Then no, you're voice will not be heard.

The next part makes sense; "...the right to determine the location of the business; the right to determine the size and assignment of the work force." They can choose where the bases will be and how many pilots should be assigned to those bases.

This part makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside; "...the right to discipline and discharge non-probationary Pilots for just cause." (Note that "non-probationary" is the same as "every pilot on property." Probationary pilots already have to watch their backs all the time, they can be fired for anything.) Define "just cause." Now tell me how management defines "just cause." Were you wearing your hat today? No? Three day suspension. Were you late because you had to shovel your car out of a snow drift? Yes? Two week suspension. Miscommuted for whatever reason but didn't fall under the protection of the commuter policy because the flights were within 45 minutes of each other? Yes? You're fired. Basically, anything the company deems as "just cause" can get you "disciplined and/or discharged." Why? Just 'cause.

Again, define this part; "...the right to establish standards of performance and to determine whether any individual meets such standards." Standards of performance? Are we allowed to know what those standards are? How will we know if we are meeting them? Management has the ability to establish a standard 100% on-time performance and if you aren't meeting it, well then, you might be "disciplined and/or discharged." Sucks for you.

This is pretty common sense, don't know why it had to be included, but it was anyway; "...the right to establish, eliminate, amend, and require Pilots to observe, Company rules and regulations; type and number of aircraft to be utilized in providing service; the right to determine what equipment will be utilized and allocated to particular routes; the right to transfer equipment from one base to another."

Ah, at last we have arrived, the crown jewel of the entire section; "...the right to determine whether to merge, consolidate, sell, or otherwise disposes of all or part of its business, shall be the right, solely and exclusively of Company." You hear that GoJetters? You're company can be merged, consolidated, sold, or otherwise disposed of at the whim of Hulas Kanodia. You are meat for the grinder should he decide he wants to retire early.

Anyway, that was my half-@ssed assessment of Section 3: Management Rights. I wholeheartedly invite not only yourself, FlyerJSH, but everyone in this industry to comment on the absurdity of this language that has no business in a pilot's contract.

As for the "I gotta feed my family" crowd (which seems to be a fair number of the losers at GoJet), I hope someday you will understand how close-minded and selfish you have been. Flame away

block30

Capt Carl, that was excellent! Any flamers would probably come from GJ. Wa wa waaaaaa...

crustacean

You've skipped over some important language in the section you're referencing. The very first sentence in the section in question (Section 3):

Emphasis mine.

You'll find the applicable sections that entitle pilots to union protection in the contract (i.e., "this Agreement"). Those sections are:

Section 12 - Probation
Section 23 - Discipline and Discharge
Section 25 - System Board of Adjustment

Section 12(b):

Again, emphasis mine.

Section 23 entitles a pilot to union representation at any company meeting, allows a the union to file a hearing/grievance, and if necessary, utilize Section 25.

While I don't argue that IBT Local 618 (aka, Rent-a-Car Attendants of St Louis) is a fairly worthless union, the contract does have some language to protect a pilot. Whether or not the union actually goes to bat for said pilot is an entirely different story/conversation.

CaptainCarl

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I stand corrected in the areas covered by applicable sections. However, the areas of Section 3 that aren't covered with specific language are basically free game. If GoJet's management is anything like Trans States Airlines' management (wait, what am I saying? They are practically the same people), they will enforce certain sections/language while completely ignoring others, much to their own benefit.

I would very much like for a current GoJetter to come on here and point out one time when their union leaders (management cronies, last I heard) went to bat for a pilot. IIRC, the last time someone at GoJet tried to open lines of communication with Waterskiers' ALPA representatives, they were swiftly sacked. Someone with a better memory than mine can tell that story in its entirety.

stbloc

For all the bashing going on here I say they had they longest line at the job fair yesterday. These guys weren't low time CFI's waiting for a chance at an interview.

navigator

I was at the Job Fair, was offered an interview this Thursday. The recruiters seemed very friendly.

Does anyone know where the junior domicile is? STL? ORD?