Bond

Scab by definition does not fit the equation...alter-ego, by all means, and there's plenty of proof available. Either way I put scabs and alter-ego employees in the same category...contract workers used by the parent company to circumnvent a collective bargaining agreement....really, is that simple.

As I mentioned before, just because a few guys managed to slip through the cracks, it doesn't mean people are not paying attention. Remember, we're the ones that will be doing the hiring in a few years....good luck rolling the dice!

mooney

Airwillie you said this about GoJet on 2/12/08..."Oh well sucks for them, they're not going to have a future because they didn't do their research. Honestly you have to do at least a little bit of wondering about your future company. For the orgiginal question, don't go to Gojet your not going to have any dignity, you will be treated accordingly, and worst of all CAs will kick you out of their airplane"

......funny how someone's opinion of an airline can change so drastically when they are out of a job and looking for excuses to defend the job they now accepted.....

and you said this on 2/19/08... "That Eagle VS AAConnection carriers is totally different than Gojet. Gojet is a scab operation, if you choose to go to Gojets you will be blacklisted by ALPA and other pilots, good luck finding a job. Gojet pilots are supporting an operation which was started against union approval, they undermined the bettering of TSA pilot contract, and regional airline pilots, and the whole industry in general. Those CRJ7s that you see are supposed to be TSA airplanes and crews, that is why pilots who go there will be treated accordingly. If you like flying with no dignity, avoiding other's and would like hiding your badge at the airport go ahead and fly for Gojets. Most of the guys that go there are foreign nationals and guys you wouldn't want to share a cockpit anyways."

now if that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is!


And no, my post isn't bashing GoJet, it's bashing 1 (or 2) individuals who loved to bash certain regionals in the past, but are now willing to work for said regionals, since they are now furloughed...wow that's unity.

Mowgli

It seems rather interesting that most of the arguments that the folks at TSA have with Go Jet are very close to being the same arguments that American Eagle had with TSA.

American Eagles contract with AMR was basically we don’t strike and AMR doesn’t farm out our flying.

As some one else posted on a previous thread, when AMR bought TWA Eagle grieved TSA continuing to do the feed work. We even had the “No alter Eagle airlines” stickers. I guess yours just say “No alter Ego airlines” . hummm.

Lets see here TSA is flying routs that we could have flown in the same equipment. Seems to make you an alter ego airline in my book. Go Jet is flying bigger equipment. 70 seat vs 50.

TSA pay scale is less than American Eagles, so there for they are undercutting not only there fellow ALPA airline, but lowering the bar for all regional airline pilots. No real moral high ground there.

Oh and lets not forget the whole deal in Miami. You lease American Eagle airplanes, get paid less than American Eagle pilots, and then start taking flying away from us in Miami an American Eagle base. Oh then you defend the action saying it’s the companies fault.

If you work for TSA and are going to tell people to stand up and not go work for Go Jet. I want to know what you were doing when you were screwing your fellow ALPA airline.

Did you call in Sick for Miami flying?
Express your outrage to your union rep?
Talk to your chief pilot?
Did you do anything?

AirWillie

ALPA argued that GOjet is the same as Freedom, an alter ego and they lost. It's proven in courts, look it up. TSA pilots had the chance to fly but they voted it down. I am not sure how you can keep arguing that GJ took away flying that TSA VOTED down. GJ pilot seniority was created after the vote, it's not as if the pilots that joined willingly took flying from TSA, it was available. And I'm going to say it again, the circumventing of the CBA argument doesn't hold because GJ ended up getting CRJ7 pay wich is better than others and a better contract than TSA and other places. Does it make much sense for management to do that if they formed GJ for the exact opposite reason to pay **** wages with no work rules?? It's not the best but it's still better than regionals that have had 25+ years in business.

AirWillie

I believe I mentioned that I was anti GJ before, I was just saying what I've always heard about the place mainly from forums. I literally though it was a scab operation. It all changed after I actually got informed at TSA and so have others and that is why I have no problem with going to GJ.

Bond

It doesn't matter what's on paper. The reason why gojets will always be detested by the rest of the industry is because legal or not, it was created to lower the overhead by means of paying pilots the same wages for flying a 70 seat aircraft (the AA scope could have been handled with a separate certificate and single list a la RAH). When the pilots at TSA refused to accept the terms, instead of going back to the negotiating table Hulas pulled a J.O. and created gojets.

Folks who continue to take a job at gojets validate management's believe that the bar can always be lower, someone will do it for cheaper. Let's face it, the TSA guys wanted good wages for a 70 seater, and management offered 50 seater wages, any good group would turn that down. Enter the dreadful contract workers to substitude those fighting for a better contract and a better industry...gojet pilots.

We can go around in circles all day and all night, I don't mind! But let me once again remind you that both my company (XJT), and the likes of skywest make more money flying 50 seaters than you guys make flying 70 seaters....again congratulations on the underachivement of a subpar contract, and the absence of respect from the rest of the industry.


Airline Pilot Central - ExpressJet | Major-National-LCC

Airline Pilot Central - GoJet | Regional

flaps 9

WRONG!!!!!


Sanjay and DT were NOT TSA MEC officers they were FLIGHT MANAGERS at TSA who eagerly crossed over to Goat Jet.

Good luck with your career

Mason32

I made those comments months ago when they first were awarded the MIA routes. It is still correct today.

That's close but not exactly right... it should say "American Eagles contract with AMR was basically we CAN'T strike and AMR doesn’t farm out our flying."

Correct... and not only that, the company then violated the contract and awarded the flying to TSA in spite of the contractual requirement to grow Eagle for AMR's regional feed. It would have caused a labor action then, if it were not for the no self help prohibitions.

Not only were they flying routes, they were doing it in equipment leased from AMR. Speaking of which, have you seen how many MEL stickers, and different colored wingtips, and mismatched paint is on those planes now? AMR may not want them back when they see them.

Very well said. I have little empathy for them in this whole goat jets thing, since it is essentially what they did to the Eagle guys (and gals)..... but hey, what can you expect from airlines like these that exist for the sole purpose of making profits by trying to undercut everybody else.

The wholly owned companies had set the bar long ago.... the bar has been repeatedly lowered due to competition from companies such as these that make their crews sleep on the airplane, pay substandard wages, have ridiculous work rules, and zero quality of life.... but hey, they get to fly a jet... right?

AirWillie

First of all It probably won't get through to you ever but stop using the term "contract workers" it makes it sound like you have no idea what you're talking about. And second of all you're wrong, management didn't offer 50 seat wages it was the equivalent of Mesa CRJ7 pay. It's very ironic that an XJT pilot is defending Skywest considering what went on with the whole deal. XJT will be forced to furlough and reduce the pay rates so you're will still be in business for CAL rather than being bought by SKY. And I wouldn't praise a place that flys 87 seaters and who knows what next, for 70 seat pay. Yes Skywest guys get paid a whopping 3 dollars more CA than GJ for flying 87 seats. I do have to say XJT had great pay but if you're going to compre GJ, the same could be said for every other regional out there. Compare the CRJ7 pay and you will find that GJ is in the middle. As far as single list, RAH pilots accepted the deal to fly 90kpound, some say, mainline jets for 50 seat wages. They didn't have union issues, not to mention separate union, that is why they were immune from being crucified by ALPA. Also I find it very interesting that the two airlines that had problems were ALPA, where as a Teamster airline formed a separate certificate with out any problems.

flyinaway411

i'm done with air willie and co.! you guys are so brainwashed and far off there is no pullin u back. i'm sorry for you.

for the eagle guys...you need to relax. as stated by i believe mason a while back, we were given that flying because eagle couldnt staff it. now that you can staff it, your getting it back. correct? seriously, if im not right, correct me. if that is the case, and if we're an alter-ego airline, then so is chq, right? flying your routes too? i'm pretty sure tsa and chq were grandfathered in with the twa acquisition. again...i may be wrong. i'm not looking forward to losing flying here at tsa, no one ever is. but i am sure to point out to ppl when they get mad about losing the ten airplanes that hey, they are their airplanes. i dont know why we got miami flying, but you can bet i sent an email to our mec letting them know it wasn't right. as an alpa member, these are the only things i can do. 1 man can't go on strike.

lets get back to the point of the thread, huh?