md11phlyer

[quote=Blackwing;332041]Semantics. My point remains the same.

I guess what I really want to know is, why are GoJet pilots so vilified, when similar scorn for Freedom pilots--who were created for the same purpose you say GoJet was--is almost non-existent? Because they unionized? So did GoJet. Because they got a contract close to industry-standard? So did GoJet.
quote]

Education time once again. Mesa guys, please correct me if I'm wrong.

After Freedom was created the original 'Freedom Fighters' list was published (which I still carry). Eventually the lists were merged and a Mesa guy could end up flying a Freedom flight. From what I understand, they were tacked onto the Mesa seniority list, yet got to keep their shiny jet seats due to 'training fences' that didn't allow more senior Mesa pilots to bid over to the -700 -900. Henceforth, the only vilified Freedom pilots are the ones that went over during the original inception. Anyone hired after the list merger is just Mesa.

So yes, the original Freedom pilots are still **** in my book and always will be. If TSA and GoJet merged lists, tacking the GoJetters to the bottom, creating one pilot group with one set of work rules, then maybe you can compare the two.

Comprende?

Foxcow

If you search for Freedom A list, you will see that g0jet is similar in a lot of regards. Freedom did not get a contract anywhere near industry standard. One of the reasons that Freedom A listers are so despised is because of this fact. g0jet was created to fly larger aircraft for cheaper because a pilot group stood up for better. g0jet initially was non-union outfit. They operated without a contract for almost 2 years. The current contract that they do have is nowhere near industry standard. It is a five and a half year agreement, they don't have per segment block or better, the commuter clause is a joke, their workrules are a joke, their payrates are for 50 seat aircraft in 2004 at best. Those facts cannot be disputed.


I can understand your desire to apply at a 121 outfit to get some experience to move on to something better later on but why on earth would you chose to apply at g0jet when just about every other regional airline is hiring. At every single one of the regionals that is hiring, you will be able to enjoy a better contract, reputation, workrules, QOL, etc, etc.

Blackwing

Thanks for the advice. I *have* done my homework, and frankly, whether one believes the TSA pilots' version of the story depends on how much kool-aid one has consumed.

I don't believe that GoJet was created to get around the TSA pilot contract. It's pretty clear the real reason was the AMR 50-seat scope, which was a real show-stopper to TSA getting the United CRJ flying. Why TSA's pilots didn't get the flying is also pretty clear; it was theirs to lose, and we've had people acknowledge in this thread that it was their refusal to do the flying for anything less than what they thought it was worth that cost them the flying. That GoJet pilots are now paid pretty average for CRJ-700 flying is just so much salt in the wound.

Sure, there were some opportunists who jumped ship to get in at the ground floor, but any scorn still held for those guys is simply player hatin'.

grossole

That is the mentality of only watching out for yourself, and not caring about what happens to anyone else. Personal gain over the good of the many.

Blackwing

And how exactly is THAT fair? Why not merge it based on date-of-hire?

grossole

Why does it have to be fair. The creation of GoJet wasn't really fair was it?

andy171773

Dude, you don't fly 121.. Don't judge decisions made by a pilot group, when you've never flown for a 121 carrier. Nativity is bred from ignorance, walk the walk before you talk the talk.

It was TSA's to lose, you're right because it was <b>THEIR FLYING</B>..but TSH didn't give them a choice. They made a decision that any carrier would've made, but mgmt took it a step lower and instead of negotiating for fair work rules, created go(away)jet.

POPA

Just in case you missed it, Blackwing, here's another post of my response to your statement "Of course TSA was created to steal flying away from Eagle."
I didn't want you to think you'd gotten away with another statement that was glaringly incorrect.

Blackwing

As I responded, semantics. Remove "from Eagle" and it's true. ALL businesses are created to steal market share.

But, like I've said before, regional pilots moaning about who's stealing from whom is like virtue among prostitutes. You're ALL flying routes previously flown by mainline guys, for a lot less money than they did. So don't kid yourselves that you're taking any sort of "high moral ground" here.

Foxcow

I agree. I would also like for him to answer this question: