butthert

My prediction -
Spirit will continue to build MCO. F9 will shrink MCO to build PHL. When the merger occurs Spirit/Frontier will instantly have two fully staffed bases. Sucks for current Frontier MCO based pilots.

PulledBreaker

I'm a firm believer that an F9/NK marriage is approaching. Much of NK's MCO flying is international, whereas ours is straight domestic.

We have shrunk AUS flying, where NK just announced they are establishing new routes.

Our current route structures, when compared side by side, possess very little overlap. Now that we might end up with a carbon copy of their CBA, it's quite clear what is coming. We have never, and will never, compete for the same customers. The only way for this ULCC model to grow and be a long term standalone, both companies will have to merge. That is the only way to control capacity and thus profitability. If not, and we add a ton of capacity, I fear the market will become saturated.

TimetoClimb

Why is it the job of prospective new hires to act against their interests in order to ensure a pilot group, who has zero necessary obligation to them, maintains it's negotiating leverage. Who is to say that candidate is even offered a job. Weren't all frontier pilots at one point or another escaping from relatively poorer working conditions by joining frontier?

ReserveCA

Had a couple contacts “prospective new hires” drop me a line with “I heard you got a contract!”
Had to inform them that the prospective AIP was bottom of the barrel........
I got a no thanks....

ninerdriver

Popcorn is ready...

Gary et al

Because it's not ensuring something for A pilot group. It's ensuring something for the group that they intend to work for. Those smart enough to stay away know that it is for their own benefit in the long run. You have severe myopia, luckily here at Frontier one of our great benefits is company paid vision insurance.

TimetoClimb

I understand the argument but deferred seniorty could be as large a role for that individual. Also if he get's the tbnt, he can re-apply more quickly. There are no guarantees for any parties involved, and the forumn is painting prospective pilots as a sort of scab if they apply at this "critical junction". Hasn't every pilot that joined in the past several years undermined negotiating leverage in a sense?

Excargodog

And yet most of the betting here - even by those adamantly opposed to the offer on the table - is that it's going to get a majority vote in favor.

It would seem that you are expecting those WHO ARE NOT YET MEMBERS OF THE GROUP to make sacrifices that you believe those already members of the group to be incapable of making.

Moreover, if you look at first year FO pay, either under the existing agreement or even the proposed one, it is very clear that the group is doing nothing whatsoever to look after the potential newbie's welfare since you are purposely negotiating for an FO scale that is lower than they would make as a regional captain and is currently less than that of most regional's 1st year FO pay.

Group loyalty should go both ways. Seems like you are quite willing to have the newbie's make sacrifices to further your goals, while using their goals as a bargaining chip for your own advantage.

TimetoClimb

Thank you! That's what I was trying to say

SFA320

I agree with most of what was said, but how do you figure the offered FO payscale is less than a regional captain!? At Endeavor the highest paying regional, it would take 10 years to make what you could at year 2 at F9, if the AIP passes at DOS. Yes the first year is low, but if I remember right we agreed “at the companies discretion” they can raise it up to 90% of year 2 pay.
Most of the hostility towards new hires is on these forums. I’m sure there are a few captains and FOs that are mistreating new hires but they are the minority. 98% of the guys at F9 are professionals and will treat fellow pilots no matter their seniority as professionals. Most of us understand it’s OUR responsibility to make the contract happen.