Frontier Hiring.
01-03-2018, 07:11 AM
#8351
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Position: Captain. CJ3+
Posts: 38
Your times are extremely competitive for the job. As long as you have fewer than three felonies in the last 10 years you shouldn’t have a problem. Be sure to attach your spouse’s previous two paychecks and/or your last 6 months of bank statements to the application. Good luck!
Thanks a bunch!
01-03-2018, 08:15 PM
#8352
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,425
Now, in terms of your application, being former military myself I will mention that despite the new aircraft, this really isn't a place I would recommend to anyone right now. Consider those words keeping in mind that I actually benefit in seniority with each new hire. The money may be better than some regionals and/or what you're currently being paid, but I'm sure you're aware that there is so much more to it than pay.
First is the training contract. This tactic, while some debate the legality/validity of enforcing it, is pretty much the biggest indicator that this is not a destination for any self-respecting pilot. Of course, the tactic is common at regional airlines and for good reason - almost all regional airlines are viewed as "stepping stones" to bigger/better airlines. As such, as soon as you're hired, you will most likely realize the attitude and treatment and, once again, aggressively start your job search again. The fact that a company that flies the size of aircraft that it does needs a training contract in the first place should be a dead giveaway about what must be going on once hired.
Second are the basing options. Unless you live in Denver, basing is an issue from an "open time" standpoint. You may become a line holder fairly quickly but trip exchanges and trading is limited simply because there are not many trips to select from. Once you get a line, you're pretty much stuck with it. And the pairings are built by the company - the union only has say so on the lines.
Third, and most frustrating for me, is the treatment/regard, or lack thereof. Crew scheduling is also a high turnover position within the company and lots of schedulers don't know the contract. So, while on reserve (and even with a line), you can expect to spend a fair amount of time on the phone debating/discussing the contract language wrt being assigned on reserve or when being rescheduled after a snow day or any number of various other issues. Ive been stranded for hours awaiting a hotel - especially after turning down an extention. I've stayed in vastly subpar hotels. I've been asked multiple times to accept an extention. And, for the most of the first year or so, a fair amount of the flying is backside of the clock.
As a professional pilot, I have found that this job is just not worth the heartache. Of course, there is the hope that conditions and pay will improve soon but from the looks of it, soon isn't really that soon and the improvement will only be to industry standard. I, like many others I know am, of course, seeking to move on. Of course, our union is recommending that same action.
At this point, about the only thing this job is worth is the Airbus type rating (which might help w/ getting hired overseas) and/or if you plan on living in Denver for some time. BTW, Denver is not cheap...
Of course, you should do what is best for you and your family and I wish you the best of luck in whatever decision you make. If you are hired, welcome. Fly straight, don't shy away from filing grievances if needed, and display your orange lanyard proudly.
01-04-2018, 04:47 AM
#8353
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
You are not kidding one bit. Great post too. Even in Denver the open time well is very dry for FO's. If you drop a trip in the MOT process and are junior you will never get anything better most likely in the MOT bidding. Then on the 28th if you are not available at 9am local time ready you will not get anything. What was left that was even decent will all disappear quick. We are overstaffed already with 9 planes being returned between April and June that will make it way worse. This is not a good year to come here...
01-04-2018, 05:58 AM
#8355
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 127
My times and experience are very similar to Aphineday. All of my flight time is military, have a bachelors with 3.8 gpa, 2 speeding tickets from over 20 years ago, and no skeletons in my closet. I am not an academy grad or have single-seat jet time in my log book.
About a year ago, I spoke with a Southwest Captain while waiting for my next flight. His recommendation has stayed with me ever since, "Apply everywhere and take the first job offer from a major airline, it just may be your dream job."
At the time, I was about a year out from retirement from the military. I'd been to two job fairs, used Emerald Coast interview prep, had 14 LoRs in hand, and had my resume professionally reviewed. I prepared myself for the transition to the airlines and felt I didn't leave any stones unturned. Everyone I spoke with who reviewed my resume, flight hours, and background said "Oh, you'll have your choice of majors, get ready."
I applied to all the majors and had my application reviewed by Cage. I thought it was only a matter of time before the calls for an offer to interview would come. They didn't. Is it timing? Possibly, but I am not going to wait around in the unemployment line waiting for "the call."
The assumption that being military is the silver bullet to getting an interview is a fallacy. Sure, I have several friends who were hired right away, but I have several more who are still waiting for the call.
For all the folks saying don't come to Frontier, are you assuming that there are multiple offers on the table from UAL, AA, Delta, SWA, along with Frontier? Really? There is a pilot shortage, just not at the majors. They are still very selective regardless of background. I had interview offers at an ACME carrier and SkyWest. I am sure if I had put my applications in with any of the other regionals I would have received other offers to interview but I am not looking for a stepping stone. I came to Frontier with my eyes wide open and understand the shortcomings.
Frontier does have it's problems but is it better than a regional? I'd have to say, Absolutely! All of my friends at the regionals are trying to get out and move up. At Frontier, if a new industry-leading contract was signed tomorrow would you still recommend not coming here?
Like the SWA captain recommended, take the first CJO from a major and make it your dream job. Is Frontier a "Major"? Yes. Is it a Legacy? No. But is sure as heck has more potential than any regional in the industry.
About a year ago, I spoke with a Southwest Captain while waiting for my next flight. His recommendation has stayed with me ever since, "Apply everywhere and take the first job offer from a major airline, it just may be your dream job."
At the time, I was about a year out from retirement from the military. I'd been to two job fairs, used Emerald Coast interview prep, had 14 LoRs in hand, and had my resume professionally reviewed. I prepared myself for the transition to the airlines and felt I didn't leave any stones unturned. Everyone I spoke with who reviewed my resume, flight hours, and background said "Oh, you'll have your choice of majors, get ready."
I applied to all the majors and had my application reviewed by Cage. I thought it was only a matter of time before the calls for an offer to interview would come. They didn't. Is it timing? Possibly, but I am not going to wait around in the unemployment line waiting for "the call."
The assumption that being military is the silver bullet to getting an interview is a fallacy. Sure, I have several friends who were hired right away, but I have several more who are still waiting for the call.
For all the folks saying don't come to Frontier, are you assuming that there are multiple offers on the table from UAL, AA, Delta, SWA, along with Frontier? Really? There is a pilot shortage, just not at the majors. They are still very selective regardless of background. I had interview offers at an ACME carrier and SkyWest. I am sure if I had put my applications in with any of the other regionals I would have received other offers to interview but I am not looking for a stepping stone. I came to Frontier with my eyes wide open and understand the shortcomings.
Frontier does have it's problems but is it better than a regional? I'd have to say, Absolutely! All of my friends at the regionals are trying to get out and move up. At Frontier, if a new industry-leading contract was signed tomorrow would you still recommend not coming here?
Like the SWA captain recommended, take the first CJO from a major and make it your dream job. Is Frontier a "Major"? Yes. Is it a Legacy? No. But is sure as heck has more potential than any regional in the industry.
01-04-2018, 07:19 AM
#8356
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 306
...I am sure if I had put my applications in with any of the other regionals I would have received other offers to interview but I am not looking for a stepping stone. I came to Frontier with my eyes wide open and understand the shortcomings.
Frontier does have it's problems but is it better than a regional? I'd have to say, Absolutely! All of my friends at the regionals are trying to get out and move up. At Frontier, if a new industry-leading contract was signed tomorrow would you still recommend not coming here?
Like the SWA captain recommended, take the first CJO from a major and make it your dream job. Is Frontier a "Major"? Yes. Is it a Legacy? No. But is sure as heck has more potential than any regional in the industry.
Frontier does have it's problems but is it better than a regional? I'd have to say, Absolutely! All of my friends at the regionals are trying to get out and move up. At Frontier, if a new industry-leading contract was signed tomorrow would you still recommend not coming here?
Like the SWA captain recommended, take the first CJO from a major and make it your dream job. Is Frontier a "Major"? Yes. Is it a Legacy? No. But is sure as heck has more potential than any regional in the industry.
If anyone can read these threads and still find a reason to come here, they are desperate. Make sure you save enough money to pay for your hotel during training. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. I'm going to liken it to this. We are at a bar. It's closing time, you've been pursuing potential partners all night. You want to get laid, cause it's "better than doing it yourself". There's a bunch of potential matches left. Frontier is not only the ugliest one, it has a terrible personality, multiple STDs and will rob you when you fall asleep. We're just trying to tell you to choose someone else for your own good, 'cause we been there.
You choose how desperate you are.
100% READY TO STRIKE
01-04-2018, 07:33 AM
#8357
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 580
Congratulations on achieving what you have. In all seriousness. PC12NG tells me you just might be a mil pilot (prob Spec Ops) and I know what kind of life that can be - especially if you were at Cannon.
Now, in terms of your application, being former military myself I will mention that despite the new aircraft, this really isn't a place I would recommend to anyone right now. Consider those words keeping in mind that I actually benefit in seniority with each new hire. The money may be better than some regionals and/or what you're currently being paid, but I'm sure you're aware that there is so much more to it than pay.
First is the training contract. This tactic, while some debate the legality/validity of enforcing it, is pretty much the biggest indicator that this is not a destination for any self-respecting pilot. Of course, the tactic is common at regional airlines and for good reason - almost all regional airlines are viewed as "stepping stones" to bigger/better airlines. As such, as soon as you're hired, you will most likely realize the attitude and treatment and, once again, aggressively start your job search again. The fact that a company that flies the size of aircraft that it does needs a training contract in the first place should be a dead giveaway about what must be going on once hired.
Second are the basing options. Unless you live in Denver, basing is an issue from an "open time" standpoint. You may become a line holder fairly quickly but trip exchanges and trading is limited simply because there are not many trips to select from. Once you get a line, you're pretty much stuck with it. And the pairings are built by the company - the union only has say so on the lines.
Third, and most frustrating for me, is the treatment/regard, or lack thereof. Crew scheduling is also a high turnover position within the company and lots of schedulers don't know the contract. So, while on reserve (and even with a line), you can expect to spend a fair amount of time on the phone debating/discussing the contract language wrt being assigned on reserve or when being rescheduled after a snow day or any number of various other issues. Ive been stranded for hours awaiting a hotel - especially after turning down an extention. I've stayed in vastly subpar hotels. I've been asked multiple times to accept an extention. And, for the most of the first year or so, a fair amount of the flying is backside of the clock.
As a professional pilot, I have found that this job is just not worth the heartache. Of course, there is the hope that conditions and pay will improve soon but from the looks of it, soon isn't really that soon and the improvement will only be to industry standard. I, like many others I know am, of course, seeking to move on. Of course, our union is recommending that same action.
At this point, about the only thing this job is worth is the Airbus type rating (which might help w/ getting hired overseas) and/or if you plan on living in Denver for some time. BTW, Denver is not cheap...
Of course, you should do what is best for you and your family and I wish you the best of luck in whatever decision you make. If you are hired, welcome. Fly straight, don't shy away from filing grievances if needed, and display your orange lanyard proudly.
Now, in terms of your application, being former military myself I will mention that despite the new aircraft, this really isn't a place I would recommend to anyone right now. Consider those words keeping in mind that I actually benefit in seniority with each new hire. The money may be better than some regionals and/or what you're currently being paid, but I'm sure you're aware that there is so much more to it than pay.
First is the training contract. This tactic, while some debate the legality/validity of enforcing it, is pretty much the biggest indicator that this is not a destination for any self-respecting pilot. Of course, the tactic is common at regional airlines and for good reason - almost all regional airlines are viewed as "stepping stones" to bigger/better airlines. As such, as soon as you're hired, you will most likely realize the attitude and treatment and, once again, aggressively start your job search again. The fact that a company that flies the size of aircraft that it does needs a training contract in the first place should be a dead giveaway about what must be going on once hired.
Second are the basing options. Unless you live in Denver, basing is an issue from an "open time" standpoint. You may become a line holder fairly quickly but trip exchanges and trading is limited simply because there are not many trips to select from. Once you get a line, you're pretty much stuck with it. And the pairings are built by the company - the union only has say so on the lines.
Third, and most frustrating for me, is the treatment/regard, or lack thereof. Crew scheduling is also a high turnover position within the company and lots of schedulers don't know the contract. So, while on reserve (and even with a line), you can expect to spend a fair amount of time on the phone debating/discussing the contract language wrt being assigned on reserve or when being rescheduled after a snow day or any number of various other issues. Ive been stranded for hours awaiting a hotel - especially after turning down an extention. I've stayed in vastly subpar hotels. I've been asked multiple times to accept an extention. And, for the most of the first year or so, a fair amount of the flying is backside of the clock.
As a professional pilot, I have found that this job is just not worth the heartache. Of course, there is the hope that conditions and pay will improve soon but from the looks of it, soon isn't really that soon and the improvement will only be to industry standard. I, like many others I know am, of course, seeking to move on. Of course, our union is recommending that same action.
At this point, about the only thing this job is worth is the Airbus type rating (which might help w/ getting hired overseas) and/or if you plan on living in Denver for some time. BTW, Denver is not cheap...
Of course, you should do what is best for you and your family and I wish you the best of luck in whatever decision you make. If you are hired, welcome. Fly straight, don't shy away from filing grievances if needed, and display your orange lanyard proudly.
Medical and dental are beyond subpar. Almost every regional has better coverage.
The retirement contribution is pathetic so if you think about staying at F9 until you retire you would have to contribute 15-20% of your earnings every month.
At least if anyone today starting at a wholly owned regional would have a chance at a legacy in 2-4 years.
01-04-2018, 04:09 PM
#8358
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 68
Don't forget the signing and retention bonus at the reginals! A few examples......
Endeavor: $10,000 Training Completion Bonus + 20,000 Retention Bonus. After year one, all Endeavor pilots earn up to $23,000 each year in annual retention payments through 2018.
PSA: $21,000 Signing Bonus, $5000 bonus for CRJ Type Rating, $20,000 First Officer retention bonus after one-year anniversary.
Air Wisconsin: $31,000 Sign-on Bonuses with $5,000 paid on first paycheck, $26,000 paid at completion of IOE, $18,000 Retention Bonuses $10,000 paid after first anniversary, $8,000 if pilot has not upgraded to Captain, $8,000 Type Rating Bonus -Pilots with Part 91K, 121 or 135 carrier with an ATP and type rating in an aircraft greater than 12,500 lbs. Paid at completion of IOE.
More info at https://pilotjobs.atpflightschool.co...ses-to-pilots/
Endeavor: $10,000 Training Completion Bonus + 20,000 Retention Bonus. After year one, all Endeavor pilots earn up to $23,000 each year in annual retention payments through 2018.
PSA: $21,000 Signing Bonus, $5000 bonus for CRJ Type Rating, $20,000 First Officer retention bonus after one-year anniversary.
Air Wisconsin: $31,000 Sign-on Bonuses with $5,000 paid on first paycheck, $26,000 paid at completion of IOE, $18,000 Retention Bonuses $10,000 paid after first anniversary, $8,000 if pilot has not upgraded to Captain, $8,000 Type Rating Bonus -Pilots with Part 91K, 121 or 135 carrier with an ATP and type rating in an aircraft greater than 12,500 lbs. Paid at completion of IOE.
More info at https://pilotjobs.atpflightschool.co...ses-to-pilots/
01-05-2018, 05:40 AM
#8359
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: A320
Posts: 273
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