Frontier Hiring.
07-08-2017, 07:37 AM
#7921
Slave
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: Hot tub
Posts: 1,389
The method they are currently using is by taking delivery of new aircraft that were bought on the cheap back during the downturn, and selling them to a leasing company at a much higher price. With each new aircraft they take delivery of, they are pocketing several million dollars (the difference between what they paid and the price they sold it to the leasing company
07-08-2017, 12:32 PM
#7922
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 219
Indigo is a private equity investment company. They are interested in making themselves and their investors the most money they can, whichever method achieves that.
The method they are currently using is by taking delivery of new aircraft that were bought on the cheap back during the downturn, and selling them to a leasing company at a much higher price. With each new aircraft they take delivery of, they are pocketing several million dollars (the difference between what they paid and the price they sold it to the leasing company).
As leases on current aircraft expire, they are returning them. The net result is little or no growth. The current fleet size is flat and has been for years. We are being lied to. There is no growth in fleet size. Look at the numbers. Yes, the pilot numbers are higher, but that is because of the increased utilization.
Growth is a long term investment. It costs money. It removes money from Indigo's pockets in the short term.
Frontier is a money making machine at it's current size with the current business model. It's my belief that Indigo will bleed as much out of Frontier as they can while still maintaining it's value for a future sale.
But what is good for Indigo and their investors is not necessarily what is best for Frontier the company, or you and I, the pilots.
The method they are currently using is by taking delivery of new aircraft that were bought on the cheap back during the downturn, and selling them to a leasing company at a much higher price. With each new aircraft they take delivery of, they are pocketing several million dollars (the difference between what they paid and the price they sold it to the leasing company).
As leases on current aircraft expire, they are returning them. The net result is little or no growth. The current fleet size is flat and has been for years. We are being lied to. There is no growth in fleet size. Look at the numbers. Yes, the pilot numbers are higher, but that is because of the increased utilization.
Growth is a long term investment. It costs money. It removes money from Indigo's pockets in the short term.
Frontier is a money making machine at it's current size with the current business model. It's my belief that Indigo will bleed as much out of Frontier as they can while still maintaining it's value for a future sale.
But what is good for Indigo and their investors is not necessarily what is best for Frontier the company, or you and I, the pilots.
This 100% I agree with...
07-08-2017, 01:20 PM
#7923
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 550
I agree with what you guys are saying, but the IPO filing claims that there will be fleet growth. Indigo can't materially misrepresent this information without facing serious financial consequences. Something they most certainly know.
I know it's frustrating going month after month without any movement. But let's see what happens after the last Sept mediated session, and go from there. If we don't see hiring/ upgrades by then, we'll know how to vote. All or nothing. Enough is enough.
I know it's frustrating going month after month without any movement. But let's see what happens after the last Sept mediated session, and go from there. If we don't see hiring/ upgrades by then, we'll know how to vote. All or nothing. Enough is enough.
07-08-2017, 01:46 PM
#7924
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 21
About lease backs, it was said in recurrent a couple of years ago that the entire fleet will have Sharklets. Anything with a wing fence will be gone. Old 319's might be kept around for spares if they get them at a serious discount.
When you see an aircraft with Sharklets disappear, then the "conspiracy theories" may have something, but until then, this seems to be the growth as advertised, albeit slower.
When you see an aircraft with Sharklets disappear, then the "conspiracy theories" may have something, but until then, this seems to be the growth as advertised, albeit slower.
07-08-2017, 11:11 PM
#7925
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 23
Some facts, observations, and estimations for those contemplating applying...
I started in spring of 2015 at around #850 on the list. We now have almost 1150 total, so that's a net growth of about 150/year. I expect we will grow at a similar rate going forward despite what they advertise. The trend is to acquire two new airplanes and send an old one back.
I was told a two year upgrade, but it will be at least 3.5 years from hire date before that option reaches me. (Not complaining, just giving perspective here). For new guys coming on now, I estimate the upgrade taking a solid 5 years as a best case scenario.
I find it much more likely we will hit an economic downturn before you reach that 5 year mark. It's been 6 years since we have seen a market correction of greater than 10%... something to consider. Also understand that a strike sounds pretty immanent if there isn't a contract by September. The soup is starting to boil.
That said, F9 is a much better lifestyle than cargo or a regional- more hard time off, generally more control of when that time off occurs, and usually pretty great people. Our training department is wonderful. Our pay is comparably obscenely low, but that will resolve itself in time if you look long term.
We have had many guys get hired from here to the legacies (two from my class) if that's your aim. And if you just can't get hired elsewhere, or have some failures or a DUI, it's not a bad place to be.
I certainly don't want to deter any good guys out there from applying, and I'm always available for a PM to help anyone out. But I don't think I would really recommend the job to a friend at present. There are just so many better opportunities out there.
I started in spring of 2015 at around #850 on the list. We now have almost 1150 total, so that's a net growth of about 150/year. I expect we will grow at a similar rate going forward despite what they advertise. The trend is to acquire two new airplanes and send an old one back.
I was told a two year upgrade, but it will be at least 3.5 years from hire date before that option reaches me. (Not complaining, just giving perspective here). For new guys coming on now, I estimate the upgrade taking a solid 5 years as a best case scenario.
I find it much more likely we will hit an economic downturn before you reach that 5 year mark. It's been 6 years since we have seen a market correction of greater than 10%... something to consider. Also understand that a strike sounds pretty immanent if there isn't a contract by September. The soup is starting to boil.
That said, F9 is a much better lifestyle than cargo or a regional- more hard time off, generally more control of when that time off occurs, and usually pretty great people. Our training department is wonderful. Our pay is comparably obscenely low, but that will resolve itself in time if you look long term.
We have had many guys get hired from here to the legacies (two from my class) if that's your aim. And if you just can't get hired elsewhere, or have some failures or a DUI, it's not a bad place to be.
I certainly don't want to deter any good guys out there from applying, and I'm always available for a PM to help anyone out. But I don't think I would really recommend the job to a friend at present. There are just so many better opportunities out there.
07-11-2017, 01:27 PM
#7926
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 580
I agree with what you guys are saying, but the IPO filing claims that there will be fleet growth. Indigo can't materially misrepresent this information without facing serious financial consequences. Something they most certainly know.
I know it's frustrating going month after month without any movement. But let's see what happens after the last Sept mediated session, and go from there. If we don't see hiring/ upgrades by then, we'll know how to vote. All or nothing. Enough is enough.
I know it's frustrating going month after month without any movement. But let's see what happens after the last Sept mediated session, and go from there. If we don't see hiring/ upgrades by then, we'll know how to vote. All or nothing. Enough is enough.
The Stock Market is full of scams and schemes and Indigo knows all to well. They are cut from the same cloth.
07-14-2017, 08:23 AM
#7928
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 684
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