NoCoairbus

Those votes for LOA 67 is what kept you employed the last 6 years when no one was hiring. So you're welcome.
The whole point of LOA 67 was to keep the lights on at Frontier 1) so we could fight another day. Which is now. And 2) to let guys look for other jobs WHILE CONTINUING TO BE EMPLOYED. If you were against every single concession why the heck haven't you left?

Southerndog

So if this is our time to fight, when does it begin? The company is being absolutly ridiculous by mentioning that we need to give stuff so they can balance out paying us what they owe us per LOA 67, suggesting that its cause by challenging economic conditions. The union is pretty silent lately (shocker I know). Still waiting for a game plan........ something......anything. The company will drag their feet for years..... then mediation.... then we must deny Arbitration and strike. There is no other path to getting industry average compensation.

NoCoairbus

Southern,
Have you bothered to call anyone on the MEC or negotiating committee? Any and all communications the union puts out the company almost immediately sees. They, union officials, are all willing to talk to you but YOU need to put in some effort to reach out to them.
The best impetuous for the company to step up negotiations is if 1) guys leave for other companies 2) people stop showing up for classes and interviews. 3) line pilots stop helping out the company
Negations is a long, drawn out process that is inherently designed by the law to favor the company. That's how it is. It sucks but we can't strike tomorrow or all call out sick. There would be severe consequences if we did. Ask the APA.
Allegiant has raised the bar on pay and the company knows it. They want to hire 270 pilots next year and the competition to get those numbers just got A LOT TOUGHER. Let alone trying to hold onto their current pilots.

RockyMntAV8R

NoCo,
I never said I voted against every concession. So your answer is if someone doesn't agree with you they should quit or go somewhere else? Let me get this straight, a pilot had to have supported 67 to have a voice..what I Joke! It's funny because that same bulldog mentality and arrogance is one (of many) reasons we negotiated ourselves into our present position. As I previously posted I don't believe 67 saved the company. If F9 had not been satisfied with the concessions of 67 they would have taken other avenues, plain and simple. Anyway I am thankful to still have the job and look forward to a better CBA tomorrow...or next week...or next year...or sometime! Until then I will live under 67 just like you and the rest of the pilot group. Once again just my opinion.

FAULTPUSH

One of the benefits of the concessions that we negotiated is that the work rules were largely (completely?) untouched, and everything else had snapbacks. That leaves us not much besides pay rates to claw back. The company is dragging their feet on the LOA 67 language because that is the biggest pain point for us. With a 20%-30% pay increase, we'd have much less inclination to vote yes on a TA unless it had a substantial improvement from that level.

FWIW, my concessionary pay rate was more than the USAir A330 captains were getting, for quite a while.

ClearCreek

[QUOTE=FAULTPUSH;2156618]One of the benefits of the concessions that we negotiated is that the work rules were largely (completely?) untouched, and everything else had snapbacks. That leaves us not much besides pay rates to claw back.

The work rules at frontier are not that great. When I was hired I kept hearing about how great the rules are. They are comparable to the average regional airline and certainly worse than any major and all of our LLC peers. As Allegiant and places like Sun Country come up in the world, frontier employees might start realizing that our rules pretty much suck. Half pay for deadheads, no hotels if you cancel in domicile, terrible hotel language, our showtimes are pathetic, no international or redeye pay, our vacation drop only works if your dropped trip doesn't pass back through domicile. These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

This is typical of the frontier attitude and why we are industry bottom. Few that work here realize how much we suck. I'd love to be proved wrong. Please tell me where our work rules are something to brag about.

TommyBoI

I agree the work rules aren't that good.

The 70 hour credit minimum is pretty annoying. Also if you miss a trip due to commuting issues you have to somehow make up time to get back to 70.

You also can not drop reserve days. I guess that's good for line holders because you have a better chance of staffing be good enough to drop or trade a trip, but it really makes reserve QOL suck. This needs to be changed.

As a line holder the ability to drop and trade trips is good so I can almost always get the days off I need, but besides that the work rules need improvement.

dang

Don't forget no minimum day guarantee. I was really surprised how many things were a step backwards in terms of work rules from the regional I came from. It was also surprising how many guys think the work rules here are good.

If I could do it again. I would do it differently but I'm still optimistic that someday frontier will be a good place to work. In the mean time I'll be waiting for the phone to ring .

Missed Appch

There was a time when I thought our work rules were great. That was when we were a spoke and hub airline. It was easier to swap, drop, and split trips when every other leg came through Denver. Those days are over, so it's not nearly as good as it once seemed.

Personally, I'm working 3 days a month more than I was five years ago. So in my opinion, the work rules aren't that great.

Southerndog

Our contract states "When ever possible" the company will let us do as we please.

I don't want to jump on the pilots that worked on our current contract, but I agree its outdated and very weak. When we can't win a grievence over the definition of what "is" is, then its time to scrap it. I'm referring to displaced for training.

I know there are those who will say it will take FOREVER to get a new contract, but I have nightmares about flying the next 20 years under the current one. I'm pretty sure ALPA can help write a new one.