LakeshoreFlyer

So.... back to the original issue of using confirmed jumpseats during training to complete your observation flights. For those guys and gals looking to do so, it looks like the court of public opinion, and Captains who control these things, has spoken.

It appears a confirmed jumpseat is confirmed so long as no one else wants it. Good luck and welcome aboard.

And thank you to those wishing me greetings in joining Frontier... A Whole different animal.

Jetalc

If they use them for commuting, who cares? Really? It's four legs - get over it. Why don't we stop with the egos and just welcome them?

NoCoairbus

Lakeshore, you are being an ass. You are a brand new pilot at Frontier and you are picking fights with senior pilots whom you might one day end up flying with.
I was the one who originally brought this topic up because back in August when 8 captains were trying to get back home from Chicago to Denver we were bumped by 2 new hires off of the jumpseat of subsequent flights. What was most irritating was that the 2 afternoon flights were oversold and had non revs listed while the morning flight had plenty of open seats yet the newhires chose to take the later flights, AND THUS KNOWINGLY BUMP senior non revs off of the flight.
Grow up and stop acting like a child.
They, the newhires, were given the jumpseat on the flights and bumped senior employees off of the flights. About 5 Frontier pilots had to get to Denver on other airlines. So your accusation that the positive space jumpseats are only positive space if no one else wants it is flat out false.

LakeshoreFlyer

Hi NoCo, I guess great minds do think alike because I think you're being an ass. LOL. I guess we've each had experience with this program and neither one of us came out liking the results.

Yes, I'm a newbie here, but I don't think that means I don't have something to contribute. My intent is not to start fights with anyone. I’m just trying to help out someone in training. It's culture shock to me that a company employee gets booted off a jumpseat during a diversion, positive space or not. ***… Welcome To Frontier (love that B/T/W, Leslie Chow). Whether they're going to work, home, or training. It's far different from any previous experience I've had, but I'm learning. I will assimilate the Frontier culture, no problem.

I like to abide by the familiar K.I.S.S. policy, Keep It Simple Stupid. If someone has a positive space to ride a jumpseat, I'm not going to question them about when they booked it, did they check other loads, did they think about an alternative city, did they have a ride to get them there for a 0600 flight after a two hour drive, did they have to take their kid to the hospital the day before, are they going fishing, or are they going to visit their mom who is a little old lady in Pasadena. That’s all moot.

I think it's unfair to lambaste an employee when Frontier issues a positive space jumpseat for them to use. If you don't like the policy, and I do think there is a lot not to like about it, then get the policy changed. Write to the people who work for you (FAPA) and get them to change the policy with the people you work for (Frontier). It looks like you already got it changed on the DEN/ORD segment. It's so divisive to hold a fellow employee guilty for abiding by the policies that are in place. And yes, I know the Captain is the final authority to the jumpseat and it is good to be The King. It’s clearly a divisive program.

I think you're post lends credence to what I was saying. Yes, feel free to use the positive space jumpseat to go home during training only if no one else wants it. Because if someone does, you'll be asked about why you didn't take a different flight or a number of other things. And for this advice, I’m being an ass? Sure.

You clearly didn't like my answer, so why don't you give it a shot. Instead of chucking spears at me for my opinion, or after you've chucked them, give a simple answer to the gal in training right now who asks the question: 'The company is offering me positive space to observe on a jumpseat during training. Can I use this program to go home and see my family?’

Firsttimeflyer

If you guys really want to solve this you will push for new hires to be able to go home on positive space passes in the cabin. Then if they want to jumpseat and there is a jumpseater trying to get home or work they simply trade with that pilot at the gate. Jumpseater takes a confirmed seat and the new hire can observe. And the captain isn't put into a position of having to choose. Everybody wins.

NoCoairbus

It's called common sense and curtesy. If flight A at noon on Sunday has 20 open seats and flight B at 5 pm is oversold with 5 non revs listed you take the noon flight so everyone can get home. You don't knowingly screw over a fellow nonrev. That's the point!
It's just like if you have an offline jumpseater. You take the fa jumpseat so they can get on too. Even though the seat sucks.
If there is only 1 flight or all of them are oversold then that's how it is and no one will begrudge you. But use some common sense and plan.

skater3260

NoCo, most of the time observation rides are booked well in advance, reducing the accuracy of a load check. End of the day, use common sense and courtesy and don't book yourself on a heavy commuter route. 99% of the time it's not an issue, this just happened to be the 1%.
Lakeshore, as far as getting left in DFW- that's the risk of taking an airplane to work. You got your observation leg but it ended up diverting. How would that be any different than a commute to work that ends up at an alternate? Welcome to Frontier. Enjoy living in base, I'm envious!

FLY320

What? Why would you have kicked him off? I have been at Frontier for over 5 years and I have bypassed upgrade about 5 times, but I am about to finally take it to simply get around this kind of BS that 1% of our Captains pull.

This is REQUIRED training. If a Captain kicks off a positive space jumpseater doing on observation ride, I am sure you would get a call from the CPO and training department and have a lot to explain. Your explanation of "there were pilots needing to get to work" isn't going to fly. If I were your FO I would have called the duty phone for you...

Would you kick a positive space FA out of a cabin seat to get a pilot to work? Absolutely not. That's absurd.

DENpilot

Don't blame the new-hires guys. You should hear the way our training department talks about this program and tells them how to use it. Contact your jumpseat committee if you are unhappy with it.

Code Red

Anyone get a call for interview w/o a job fair? I may have to go to one at the end of the month.