terryhflyer

I would have kicked you out as well chief. You had a jumpseat from PBI to DEN.

Oh, welcome to Frontier.

burgh2burg

Hey guys, regional FO here who just cracked 2500TT last month. I meet the requirements and I'm going to the Sun N Fun career fair next week. It's my first career fair so any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

LakeshoreFlyer

Observation flights are a required part of the training curriculum. Part of the reason of the training department confirming a Jumpseat is that they see the value of both the new hire receiving line training as well as being present and available to take their sims as scheduled.

My home base is ORD. There is no confirmed seats from DEN to ORD. That's why I choose to complete my required training to a destination that I could be assured a ride back for my scheduled sims. It doesn't matter if that destination was Palm Beach or Milwaukee. It was required training that I was doing.

Looking a the big picture, I would presume the company would prefer the trainee getting to DEN and not missing a scheduled sim, hence the confirmed seating. If someone misses a sim, there is substantial cost involved to the company. At the very minimum it would cost another 4 hours of scheduled sim time, a slot with an instructor, and a seat sub. And there is also the delay in completing training. If a line pilot can't make it to work there is a reserve to take his/her place and the operation continues as planned. There are no reserve contingencies in place for a missed sim slot.

Sorry if it came off as complaining. I was just merely trying to tell the person who is coming behind me that 'confirmed seating' for the observation rides may not be as confirmed as one thinks.

HacksawDuggan

I get your thinking, but I think in the extreme example you provide it would be more appropriate for the company to provide you a seat in the back, to ensure you get to training, not to bump a second commuter. Or at least trade spots with the commuter so you can observe.

Bottom line is the Captain controls the jumpseat.

In all seriousness though, welcome aboard.

wt932051

Jump seats are always a touchy subject. I have yet to kick anyone off my jump seat and probably never will, but if I did, I would need a really good reason. I don't think that this captain had a good enough reason in this case as he was doing a positive space observation flight and not traveling on vacation. He probably just ended up creating friction between the pilot group. Each to your own. We deal with enough in this industry as it is.

Leslie Chow

Actually, during a DIO (aka IROPS - whatever you want to call it) such as the 'snowmageddon' even, I am fairly certain the SOC was burning through reserves at a pretty solid pace; the company would prefer to get current, fully qualified, line-holding pilots to work over a new hire with a sim event. The sim event might be expensive, but please consider the fact that a sim event is peanuts compared to more cancelled/late flights which impact the entire operation, not to mention our most important variable - our customers. If the VP of Flight Ops thinks the event is important enough to declare a DIO, thereby suspending a large portion of the contract, then your observation ride to PBI and subsequent sim event probably isn't on anyone's short list. Also, please let the fact that the captain is not only in control of HIS jumpseat, but he is also the senior managment representative of Frontier Airlines concerining that flight not be lost on you. In this case the captain had a managment decision to make and the captain made it. I'm quite certain ther's not a single captain on our property who would take any pleasure in kicking one of our own off a jumpseat.

That's the big picture.

W.T.F................








.......Welcome to Frontier.

Herewegoagain

a question for the group. The current vsa has an effective date of July 1 for base transfers. If one were to bid a different base, same seat, would you be able to bid your July line in the new base?

MtnPeakCruiser

Yes, you would be able to bid for July.

ColdWhiskey

I can assure you that it is not the intent of the training department to provide you with 4 positive space jumpseat observation passes so that you can use them for your commuting trump card (getting you to your training sim on time).

The reason for the passes is so that you can familiarize yourself with an actual Frontier flight and the line environment you will soon be in.

If you are using them for positive space travel for your commute, that is you taking advantage of the passes, and not the intent of why they are provided to you.

sab1250

People in training have specifically told new hires that they can use observation flights for commuting during training since I've been here, (2013). Common sense however should be to not bump a senior F9 Jumpseater while doing so (i.e. have a backup plan). I see no reason why newhires can't do their observations while commuting home during training (they have lives and families too). Just use common sense about it.