Arty13

As a new hire, I find this post a little perplexing. I get the frustration experienced by many who have witnessed the decline of F9. But seriously, why, if it is so bad, don't you leave? I imagine your answer would roughly resemble my reason for coming over. As bad as F9 can be, have you seen the regionals lately? Most of my class, myself included, have given months, or even years in my case, of thought about the direction of our careers. For any of a thousand reasons, we have not been hired at one of the big three, SWA, or whatever other airline you presently idolize. I made the decision to come onboard despite the challenges faced by the pilots because I am looking long term at what is best for my family.

priorwhat

God post arty I agree the grass is always greener till you get there and realize it's the opposite side of the fence and nothing more. Either leave or make it better.

OpenClimb

Get comfortable because this is gonna take a while.

1. Why don't you just leave?

When a pilot has accumulated many years of longevity at a mainline carrier, there are a couple of realities that must be considered. The average senior pilot is probably not a young person anymore. The average age for folks with any kind of seniority at F9 is somewhere between 45 and 50 years old. This is a much different time of life versus mid to late 20's. We've got teenage children and are staring down the costs of college and doing our best to plan for retirement as it draws nearer by the day.

Starting over would mean taking a $100,000 per year paycut at exactly the time in our lives that we can't afford to do that. It would also mean being junior at a distant base which would require long distance parenting or uprooting kids during their teenage years which is also a really bad idea. The spouse's career and employment is another huge consideration.

I'm doing my best to not be a condescending old fart, but life decisions take on a different meaning at mid-40's versus mid-20's. I'm not complaining, believe me. I'm actually enjoying middle age. But it's different. Different in so many ways that I couldn't describe it accurately and fully in 30 pages, much less a single post.

2. Have you seen the regionals?

As a matter of fact, yes I have. I worked at what had to have been one of the 2 worst regionals in existence at the time. This was before GoJets. Before the Bedford version of Republic. I don't know how these two carriers would compare to Mesa of the 90's, but yes, I'm familiar with the regional segment of the industry.

This being said, I think the idea that you're comparing Frontier to a regional is pretty telling. Thank you for making my point for me. This is **supposed** to be a step up from the regionals. For us oldtimes, the move to Frontier was career **progression**, not a placeholder until somebody else hired us.

As I said in a post from many months ago, "We're better than most regional airlines." I can't believe our pilot recruitment folks haven't incorporated this catch phrase in our Job fair marketing materials.

3. Months or even years of thought to your career...

That's great. We all make the best decisions we can given the information available at the time a decision must be made. The information you're seeing in this thread should be considered when making a decision to come to Frontier.

Every airline has its issues. The difference is that airlines like Frontier have Third World style issues where the legacies have First World problems. We call crew scheduling after a double red eye at 4am begging them to get us a hotel in Chicago so that we can enjoy our 12 hour daytime rest. A legacy pilot worries about whether they should be staying in the downtown hotel or the airport hotel.

Another way to describe the differences in the problems we face is to simply state that Frontier pilots face the same challenges as many regional pilots in our daily existence. These problems are not problems at legacy carriers. They've moved on to the next level of challenges.

4. Idolize SWA or some other airline.

Specifically, with regard to SWA, I'm not interested. Historically, I was impressed with their "employees first" philosophy, but I think that has changed/is changing.

From an operational standpoint, I don't think I'd fit in. The place seems to move at a frenetic pace. Everybody seems to be in a hurry all the time. Sorta like watching an aggressive driver on the interstate weaving in and out of lanes trying to gain a five minute advantage over the course of a 90 minute drive. I'm just not that person. To continue the analogy, I'm the guy who sets the cruise control at the speed limit and cruises in the right lane. I don't begrudge the lane changers for wanting to move at a faster pace. I just choose not to participate.

Different strokes for different folks. Believe me, I'm not bashing SWA. They've obviously had a great deal of success and most folks are happy to be there. Back to my point from my original post: part of the job hunt should be an attempt to match your personality to the company you seek. SWA wouldn't be a good fit for me.

As for idolizing other airlines... This is a tough one for me and something I've put a lot of thought into lately. I'm not sure an airline exists where I'd be content. I'm starting to look outside the industry. In general terms, I'd like to have a job where my efforts are appreciated and where I don't have to fight every day to keep what I've got. Where I don't have to fight every day PERIOD. Someplace where we can come to a mutual agreement regarding what I'm to be paid and what's expected of me. I'll happily do my job and the company will happily pay me for doing my job well. I thought that's what I was getting when I came to Frontier.

Aero1900

Remember that our contact is nearly over and the future might look a whole lot different than the past. When looking at career airlines, being so narrow minded as to only look at a contract that's about to expire is pretty dumb.

Think bigger picture

Cross Check

Better be prepared for a fight then, it won't come easy and will more than likely lead to a strike. I'm ready, are you?

sulkair

So will we IPO before section six opens, or 5 years from now after the dust settles?

sulkair

Cross buddy I AM READY to do whatever it takes within the realm of legal options to make this airline a place worthy of my career.

Aero1900

I am. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I wouldnt be surprised if it does. I don't know what the lessons learned from the Spirit strike were. This management team fights for every dollar, which is why they have been so successful, but expect a really tough fight for our dollars

Aero1900

We will IPO long before a new pilot contract is signed. With our below industry average wages, the company has ever reason to drag out negotiations as long as possible. Plus, what's the average time to negotiate a RLA contract, 3 years?

Cross Check

Good to hear brothers!