Frontier Hiring.
10-26-2014, 12:39 PM
#1291
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
They would never hire me to be a counselor 
. A quick peek at your past posts on APC show me that you favor Lori Clark. In fact, you have blasted many companies in the past that offer services to better candidates. Just like Lori Clark ,they charge money for a service. Do you not believe in Capitalism? I think Lori does.
Again, I have no loyalty to any company. I think investing a couple hundred bucks to get on with a great carrier is wise. I also believe that these events that introduce recruiters to applicants are essential to put a face to a resume.
PS, I have heard Lori's prep is good, but so are the other companies.
TEN
. A quick peek at your past posts on APC show me that you favor Lori Clark. In fact, you have blasted many companies in the past that offer services to better candidates. Just like Lori Clark ,they charge money for a service. Do you not believe in Capitalism? I think Lori does. Again, I have no loyalty to any company. I think investing a couple hundred bucks to get on with a great carrier is wise. I also believe that these events that introduce recruiters to applicants are essential to put a face to a resume.
PS, I have heard Lori's prep is good, but so are the other companies.
TEN
10-26-2014, 12:47 PM
#1292
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 491
Makes sense - AND conversely, at a defined point a pilot becomes more expensive to keep than to replace. So the idea that they want people who will never leave cannot be true either.
If a pilot leaves before day X, or stays past day X - he's more expensive than he needs to be.
If you really want to think conspiracy theory - I would say selection is masterminded to achieve a pilot group that is split between young millennials who they expect will eventually leave, but not so soon as to represent a loss on investment ( these guys will never be invested enough to rock the boat ) and senior fat dumb and happys that don't dare rock the boat (too much invested) ... thereby ensuring there will never be any dangerously concerted unity/effort in the group to achieve real gains.
Please. I promise no offense intended vis-à-vis fat dumb and happy. Using the language only to make a point.
If a pilot leaves before day X, or stays past day X - he's more expensive than he needs to be.
If you really want to think conspiracy theory - I would say selection is masterminded to achieve a pilot group that is split between young millennials who they expect will eventually leave, but not so soon as to represent a loss on investment ( these guys will never be invested enough to rock the boat ) and senior fat dumb and happys that don't dare rock the boat (too much invested) ... thereby ensuring there will never be any dangerously concerted unity/effort in the group to achieve real gains.
Please. I promise no offense intended vis-à-vis fat dumb and happy. Using the language only to make a point.
The new hires won't be around long enough to see the 14+ year rates, but they're inexperienced enough to NEED to stay at Frontier for 4-5 years to be competitive for a legacy job. Thusly achieving some optimal balance between return on the investment in initial training and maintaining a large percentage of the pilot group in the lower end of the pay tables.
The fat, dumb, and happy senior guys resent the junior guys because the juniors see frontier as a stepping stone which implies that while Frontier might be good enough for captain fat, dumb, and happy, it's not good enough for junior. Captain F, D, and H further resents the junior folk because he believes Junior is harming the Company by using it as a stepping stone. Thusly preventing any real unity among the pilot group and keeping overall compensation below market levels.
It's an interesting dynamic. I'm not a big conspiracy theorist, but I think we'd be kidding ourselves to think that these kinds of discussions don't take place over at the puzzle palace.
No offense taken at Senior, Fat, Dumb, and Happy. If I'm honest with myself, I resemble that remark more and more each day.
10-26-2014, 01:20 PM
#1293
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
I can definitely get on board with your theory. Frontier's 14+ year pay rate is good enough to keep the senior guys from starting over, but enough below market rate to keep costs down.
The new hires won't be around long enough to see the 14+ year rates, but they're inexperienced enough to NEED to stay at Frontier for 4-5 years to be competitive for a legacy job.Thusly achieving some optimal balance between return on the investment in initial training and maintaining a large percentage of the pilot group in the lower end of the pay tables.
The fat, dumb, and happy senior guys resent the junior guys because the juniors see frontier as a stepping stone which implies that while Frontier might be good enough for captain fat, dumb, and happy, it's not good enough for junior. Captain F, D, and H further resents the junior folk because he believes Junior is harming the Company by using it as a stepping stone. Thusly preventing any real unity among the pilot group and keeping overall compensation below market levels.
It's an interesting dynamic. I'm not a big conspiracy theorist, but I think we'd be kidding ourselves to think that these kinds of discussions don't take place over at the puzzle palace.
No offense taken at Senior, Fat, Dumb, and Happy. If I'm honest with myself, I resemble that remark more and more each day.
The new hires won't be around long enough to see the 14+ year rates, but they're inexperienced enough to NEED to stay at Frontier for 4-5 years to be competitive for a legacy job.Thusly achieving some optimal balance between return on the investment in initial training and maintaining a large percentage of the pilot group in the lower end of the pay tables.
The fat, dumb, and happy senior guys resent the junior guys because the juniors see frontier as a stepping stone which implies that while Frontier might be good enough for captain fat, dumb, and happy, it's not good enough for junior. Captain F, D, and H further resents the junior folk because he believes Junior is harming the Company by using it as a stepping stone. Thusly preventing any real unity among the pilot group and keeping overall compensation below market levels.
It's an interesting dynamic. I'm not a big conspiracy theorist, but I think we'd be kidding ourselves to think that these kinds of discussions don't take place over at the puzzle palace.
No offense taken at Senior, Fat, Dumb, and Happy. If I'm honest with myself, I resemble that remark more and more each day.
10-26-2014, 01:28 PM
#1294
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 715
Exactly. I know people who couldn't get an interview at Spirit but we're subsequently hired at Delta. Frontier needs to offer solid compensation and advancement if they want to keep pilots for one year, nevermind four or five years.
10-26-2014, 06:10 PM
#1295
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 491
So long as the legacies are hiring, I think F9 will have a tough time holding on to new pilots. The challenge for the Company will be identifying those who can't or won't move on before F9 has received an adequate return on its investment in initial training. I don't know what characteristics fit this requirement, but I'd imagine the hiring process is more about finding these people than picking the person who has the social grace to NOT be running around on interview day with his nose buried in his iOS device or who does or does not know the frequency of every Locator Outer Marker in the northern hemisphere.
I've flown with a fair number of new hires lately and I'd say we're actually getting some pretty quality people in spite of ourselves. Most of them seem very young--young in age and/or young in the business. 'Course given that I already admitted to being one of the older Fat, Dumb, and Happy folks, many people are starting to look really young to me!
10-26-2014, 06:36 PM
#1296
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
Sorry ManFlex and Meatballs. I meant to soften that statement before I published that post.
So long as the legacies are hiring, I think F9 will have a tough time holding on to new pilots. The challenge for the Company will be identifying those who can't or won't move on before F9 has received an adequate return on its investment in initial training. I don't know what characteristics fit this requirement, but I'd imagine the hiring process is more about finding these people than picking the person who has the social grace to NOT be running around on interview day with his nose buried in his iOS device or who does or does not know the frequency of every Locator Outer Marker in the northern hemisphere.
I've flown with a fair number of new hires lately and I'd say we're actually getting some pretty quality people in spite of ourselves. Most of them seem very young--young in age and/or young in the business. 'Course given that I already admitted to being one of the older Fat, Dumb, and Happy folks, many people are starting to look really young to me!
So long as the legacies are hiring, I think F9 will have a tough time holding on to new pilots. The challenge for the Company will be identifying those who can't or won't move on before F9 has received an adequate return on its investment in initial training. I don't know what characteristics fit this requirement, but I'd imagine the hiring process is more about finding these people than picking the person who has the social grace to NOT be running around on interview day with his nose buried in his iOS device or who does or does not know the frequency of every Locator Outer Marker in the northern hemisphere.
I've flown with a fair number of new hires lately and I'd say we're actually getting some pretty quality people in spite of ourselves. Most of them seem very young--young in age and/or young in the business. 'Course given that I already admitted to being one of the older Fat, Dumb, and Happy folks, many people are starting to look really young to me!
10-26-2014, 06:54 PM
#1297
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 737 Left
Posts: 828
It does seem like they want to interview just inexperience folks who can't move on. I have a few buddies from my last regional who are all RJ CA's, want to go to F9 and stay, but they can't score an interview.
Seems like all they want to interview is RJ FOs...
Seems like all they want to interview is RJ FOs...
10-26-2014, 07:24 PM
#1298
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 491
The new hires I've flown with recently have been:
4--RJ FO's
1--Fractional guy who was in his 50's
Several--Lakes captains
Conspicuously absent from the list is any new hire with Turbojet PIC experience with the exception of the older fractional guy.
One guy's report (mine) doesn't constitute a trend, but I offer this up as one point of reference.
4--RJ FO's
1--Fractional guy who was in his 50's
Several--Lakes captains
Conspicuously absent from the list is any new hire with Turbojet PIC experience with the exception of the older fractional guy.
One guy's report (mine) doesn't constitute a trend, but I offer this up as one point of reference.
10-26-2014, 07:44 PM
#1299
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 879
10-26-2014, 07:53 PM
#1300
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
Where are you coming up with is crap? All of these new hires can move on and a lot of them will because 1) they are young 2) they are qualified!
For scoring an interview helps to have Silver Bullet but not required.
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