Frontier jets will fly out of Milwaukee
09-24-2009, 08:51 PM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 52
You also still miss the point that Midwest was NOT on strike, therefore neither the F9 or RAH pilots are scabs. They (the F9/RAH pilots) are NOT obligated to follow the Midwest CBA. They have their own contracts which do not give them an option to refuse the flying out of MKE. Doing so would be an ILLEGAL work action on their part, and would put their jobs in jeopardy. Basically, what you're asking is for another pilot group(s) to put their job on the line in order to POSSIBLY save yours. Your own pilot group could have engaged in a wildcat strike as soon as the RAH/Midwest deal was announced, but it didn't, probably because your MEC knew that it would be ILLEGAL to do so. So who the h**l are you to expect another group to do it for you? Let go of the chip on your shoulder. You'll feel a whole lot better, and if you wind up integrated with RAH/F9 at some point, it will make for a much more pleasant work environment if you're not bitter towards the guy in the other seat. Not to mention it makes it lot easier to unify against management during contract negotiations when the crews aren't fighting among themselves.
09-24-2009, 09:14 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 114
320ToBearz,
Your comment is highly offensive and way off base.
The Frontier pilots have a great deal of respect for the Midwest pilots but comments like yours will poison that perspective in a hurry. FAPA pilots will only fly Frontier aircraft operated under the Frontier 121 Flag Operating Certificate and only in Frontier colors. If you have a problem with Marketing or the new Holding Company (RAH) or the new codeshare arrangement, I suggest you take up an arguement with them.
Bedford wants to keep Frontier seperate and he is threatening to sell 50.1% of Frontier to do so, if needed. In that scenerio, I would imagine that Frontier would want the Midwest pilots for their planned growth. In the scenerio of a SLI with the multiple pilot groups, I know the Frontier guys want the Midwest guys integrated into mainline. Those sentiments will quickly change if your attitude is representative of the group.
Sempre Fi
09-24-2009, 09:55 PM
#23
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: A320 CAPT
Posts: 21
Boy, you're bitter, give it a rest already. You weren't on strike, no picket lines were crossed, therefore no scabbing occurred. You want to point out a scab, there's all sorts of links to scab vision on the Amerijet strike thread. Oh, and guess what, even if either the Frontier or Republic guys wanted to refuse the flying on principle, they couldn't. It would be an illegal work action, and those ARE AGAINST THE LAW, or are you so blinded by irrational anger and hatred that you can't understand that? Midwest is owned by RAH now, as is Frontier, so using RAH and/or Frontier pilots to fly old Midwest routes is management's call, whether you like it or not. What's happened to the YX guys sucks, but it's not the fault of any pilot group...Midwest, Frontier, Republic or otherwise. Sometimes things just don't work out. Midwest pilots aren't the first group in aviation history to lose their jobs, and they probably won't be the last. Somehow, the pilots from Braniff 1 & 2, Frontier 1, Pan Am, Eastern (the guys who weren't scabs,) and many others managed to move on. The Midwest guys will, too.
09-24-2009, 10:15 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
Boy, you're bitter, give it a rest already. You weren't on strike, no picket lines were crossed, therefore no scabbing occurred. You want to point out a scab, there's all sorts of links to scab vision on the Amerijet strike thread. Oh, and guess what, even if either the Frontier or Republic guys wanted to refuse the flying on principle, they couldn't. It would be an illegal work action, and those ARE AGAINST THE LAW, or are you so blinded by irrational anger and hatred that you can't understand that? Midwest is owned by RAH now, as is Frontier, so using RAH and/or Frontier pilots to fly old Midwest routes is management's call, whether you like it or not. What's happened to the YX guys sucks, but it's not the fault of any pilot group...Midwest, Frontier, Republic or otherwise. Sometimes things just don't work out. Midwest pilots aren't the first group in aviation history to lose their jobs, and they probably won't be the last. Somehow, the pilots from Braniff 1 & 2, Frontier 1, Pan Am, Eastern (the guys who weren't scabs,) and many others managed to move on. The Midwest guys will, too.
you ever flown with any of the pilots you cited. The TWA guys sure haven't flying with some of them is a real PITA.
09-24-2009, 11:29 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 52
No to the Pan Am, TWA and Braniff 1, at least not that I know of. I know I've flown with a few Frontier 1 and Eastern types, and they all seemed like pretty good guys (non-scab Eastern, just to clarify, because we have a few of the "other" variety here, as well.) We have our share of PITA's to fly with here, just like anywhere else, but I haven't heard too many griping about how things went bad for them at their last carrier. Then again, I don't typically ask people about where they worked pre-FedEx, especially captains who are way senior to me, unless they bring it up first for some reason. I guess it is still pretty recent for some of the TWA people, but still, if they're now at UPS, then it can't be all bad for them.
09-25-2009, 05:34 AM
#26
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
If you had a real "SCAB List", you'd be able to reference the cover page which tells you exactly what one is. This may aid you in 'appearing' to be a bit more educated when you see it fit to 'toss' the word about.
It's extremely evident that you have not a clue by the use of the word.
SCAB:
3 a(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike
Under NO TERMs is the MidEx situation good. What Bedford's RAH has done is tragic. I think this should serve as a HUGE wake up call for the entire industry. Knowing some of the MidEx guys personally, they are a class group of pilots. They deserved none of this as they were pawns in Bedfords game....just as the F9 guys could be coined.
To have someone sit on the sidelines and toss out the label that F9'er are Scabs??? Your off your rock!! For your sake, I hope that you look at what your saying and understand that what your spouting is incorrect. Is it your oppinion that they are "acting" like what you call them?? Well, that's for you to decide, but are they SCABs?? Not even close by definition.
09-25-2009, 06:51 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
Time and time again I find it amazing how often the word "SCAB" is thrown around APC when the user obviously does NOT know the meaning!! In our industry, this "dirty word" has a very specific meaning. If your going to use it, you best know what your saying.
If you had a real "SCAB List", you'd be able to reference the cover page which tells you exactly what one is. This may aid you in 'appearing' to be a bit more educated when you see it fit to 'toss' the word about.
It's extremely evident that you have not a clue by the use of the word.
SCAB:
3 a(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike
Under NO TERMs is the MidEx situation good. What Bedford's RAH has done is tragic. I think this should serve as a HUGE wake up call for the entire industry. Knowing some of the MidEx guys personally, they are a class group of pilots. They deserved none of this as they were pawns in Bedfords game....just as the F9 guys could be coined.
To have someone sit on the sidelines and toss out the label that F9'er are Scabs??? Your off your rock!! For your sake, I hope that you look at what your saying and understand that what your spouting is incorrect. Is it your oppinion that they are "acting" like what you call them?? Well, that's for you to decide, but are they SCABs?? Not even close by definition.
If you had a real "SCAB List", you'd be able to reference the cover page which tells you exactly what one is. This may aid you in 'appearing' to be a bit more educated when you see it fit to 'toss' the word about.
It's extremely evident that you have not a clue by the use of the word.
SCAB:
3 a(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike
Under NO TERMs is the MidEx situation good. What Bedford's RAH has done is tragic. I think this should serve as a HUGE wake up call for the entire industry. Knowing some of the MidEx guys personally, they are a class group of pilots. They deserved none of this as they were pawns in Bedfords game....just as the F9 guys could be coined.
To have someone sit on the sidelines and toss out the label that F9'er are Scabs??? Your off your rock!! For your sake, I hope that you look at what your saying and understand that what your spouting is incorrect. Is it your oppinion that they are "acting" like what you call them?? Well, that's for you to decide, but are they SCABs?? Not even close by definition.
09-25-2009, 06:52 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
No to the Pan Am, TWA and Braniff 1, at least not that I know of. I know I've flown with a few Frontier 1 and Eastern types, and they all seemed like pretty good guys (non-scab Eastern, just to clarify, because we have a few of the "other" variety here, as well.) We have our share of PITA's to fly with here, just like anywhere else, but I haven't heard too many griping about how things went bad for them at their last carrier. Then again, I don't typically ask people about where they worked pre-FedEx, especially captains who are way senior to me, unless they bring it up first for some reason. I guess it is still pretty recent for some of the TWA people, but still, if they're now at UPS, then it can't be all bad for them.
09-25-2009, 07:46 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
I think what you are missing is that management has found a way to replace pilots with cheaper pilots. The process of a strike is not possible however the end result is the same. The pilots who will do the work know that other pilots who used to do the work are on the street. I can easily see how the republic pilots would be viewed as scabs.
I agree.
Add to this that the Republic EXCO has not put out one communication supporting the union that is being replaced. Then add the fact that the replacement workers are being paid 50% the wages of the Midwest workers. Can't say that about TWA, Pan Am, Braniff, ...
This is a company lock-out that is being aided by Republics EXCO and pilots.
Don't hire Republic pilots
09-25-2009, 08:59 AM
#30
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
I think what you are missing is that management has found a way to replace pilots with cheaper pilots. The process of a strike is not possible however the end result is the same. The pilots who will do the work know that other pilots who used to do the work are on the street. I can easily see how the republic pilots would be viewed as scabs.
Unless you care to rewrite, or broaden the definition of a SCAB, use the term correctly. If you take the time to look at the Master SCAB List, observe....CAL, UAL, EAL, Comair, and soon to be AmeriJet. What do they ALL have in common, crossing the line of a Union Strike...thus a SCAB. So when F9'ers t/o out of MKE, is the Master SCAB List going to carry those pilot's name's??? Where's the "STRIKE" in which their SCAB'ing???
If someone out of frustration feel they need to lash out and use the 'ugliest term' in our industry incorrectly, have at it.....just shows 'your' inept understanding of what it truly means. If you need a Master SCAB List for yourself, PM and a copy is yours for your viewing.
****DISCLAIMER....I am NOT saying this whole situation is RIGHT, b/c it's NOT. It has shown how Mgt has found a way to further desecrate this profession by evidence of the RAH-MidEx-Frontier mess.
Last edited by SoCalGuy; 09-25-2009 at 01:22 PM.
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