SWA - Frontier Senority List Integration
08-09-2009, 08:55 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 879
08-10-2009, 05:19 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 737 CA MIA
Posts: 1,042
If you were a CA at TWA you kept your CA seat. Only a few 717 CA's with less than 8 yrs at TWA did not keep reinstatement rights to the CA seat at AA.
40% of TWA CA's all kept their CA seat are still in it, or retired from it.
All TWA CA;s recieved a large pay raise, great retirement benefits.
I know at least 800+ ex TWA CA's that could have bid out of St louis into the AA system and still held CA in any AA base.
There are only about 400 TWA CA's left.
TWA CA's were merged into the AA seniority list starting at 2000 ish at the time good enough for 767 CA at any AA base in 2001.
935 TWA CA's kept their seats.
For the TWA Fo's if you were hired on after 1986 you were ratio'd into the AA pilot list at 8 to 1 until they ran out of AA pilots. The rest were then called a staple.
Yes, it sucks that AA put all the TWA pilots into one base (St louis).
People use the term staple so easily and generally incorrectly.
Was TWA stapled? If you ask me, No.
I saw 935 TWA CA's come onto the list senior to me.
7576FO
08-10-2009, 08:14 AM
#78
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
Not Really
If you were a CA at TWA you kept your CA seat. Only a few 717 CA's with less than 8 yrs at TWA did not keep reinstatement rights to the CA seat at AA.
40% of TWA CA's all kept their CA seat are still in it, or retired from it.
All TWA CA;s recieved a large pay raise, great retirement benefits.
I know at least 800+ ex TWA CA's that could have bid out of St louis into the AA system and still held CA in any AA base.
There are only about 400 TWA CA's left.
TWA CA's were merged into the AA seniority list starting at 2000 ish at the time good enough for 767 CA at any AA base in 2001.
935 TWA CA's kept their seats.
For the TWA Fo's if you were hired on after 1986 you were ratio'd into the AA pilot list at 8 to 1 until they ran out of AA pilots. The rest were then called a staple.
Was TWA stapled? If you ask me, No.I saw 935 TWA CA's come onto the list senior to me.
40% of TWA CA's all kept their CA seat are still in it, or retired from it.
All TWA CA;s recieved a large pay raise, great retirement benefits.
I know at least 800+ ex TWA CA's that could have bid out of St louis into the AA system and still held CA in any AA base.
There are only about 400 TWA CA's left.
TWA CA's were merged into the AA seniority list starting at 2000 ish at the time good enough for 767 CA at any AA base in 2001.
935 TWA CA's kept their seats.
For the TWA Fo's if you were hired on after 1986 you were ratio'd into the AA pilot list at 8 to 1 until they ran out of AA pilots. The rest were then called a staple.
Was TWA stapled? If you ask me, No.I saw 935 TWA CA's come onto the list senior to me.
The first statement is FALSE. All TWA CAs did NOT keep their seats. The reason for this was the 'un'integration crammed down the TWA pilots' throats, after AA management sided with APA and put a gun to TWA ALPA's head by stating they'd walk away from the buyout deal unless TWA pilots waived scope and all labor protective provisions (arbitrated integration, Allegheny/Mohawk, etc.).
Out of 2400 TWA pilots, 1300 were stapled to the bottom of the AA seniority list. This number included 200 13-yr 717/S80 CAs, each of whom were subsequently furloughed after 9-11. Out of the 1100 ratioed TWA CAs, which started at #2500 on AA master list ('63 hires placed with '85 seniority)and went 8.14 to 1 all the way to the bottom, over 400 CAs retired and 200 of these CAs were also furloughed. Out of 2400 TWA pilots, only 495 were left after the furloughs, and only 750 are working at AA today. Over 1500 pilots are still furloughed at AA, and 1200 are TWA pilots.
The bottom line: The Bond-McCaskill bill that requires neutral, binding, third-party arbitration for integrating employees was instituted because of what AA and the 'unions' did to the TWA employees after the acquisition. Today, out of 22,500 TWA employees, only 2500 are left at AA.
08-10-2009, 08:35 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 737 CA MIA
Posts: 1,042
I know we have remarkable different perspectives, but I feel this post requires a rebuttal. It's all about our individual viewpoint, isn't it?
The first statement is FALSE. All TWA CAs did NOT keep their seats. The reason for this was the 'un'integration crammed down the TWA pilots' throats, after AA management sided with APA and put a gun to TWA ALPA's head by stating they'd walk away from the buyout deal unless TWA pilots waived scope and all labor protective provisions (arbitrated integration, Allegheny/Mohawk, etc.).
Out of 2400 TWA pilots, 1300 were stapled to the bottom of the AA seniority list. This number included 200 13-yr 717/S80 CAs, each of whom were subsequently furloughed after 9-11. Out of the 1100 ratioed TWA CAs, which started at #2500 on AA master list ('63 hires placed with '85 seniority)and went 8.14 to 1 all the way to the bottom, over 400 CAs retired and 200 of these CAs were also furloughed. Out of 2400 TWA pilots, only 495 were left after the furloughs, and only 750 are working at AA today. Over 1500 pilots are still furloughed at AA, and 1200 are TWA pilots.
The bottom line: The Bond-McCaskill bill that requires neutral, binding, third-party arbitration for integrating employees was instituted because of what AA and the 'unions' did to the TWA employees after the acquisition. Today, out of 22,500 TWA employees, only 2500 are left at AA.
The first statement is FALSE. All TWA CAs did NOT keep their seats. The reason for this was the 'un'integration crammed down the TWA pilots' throats, after AA management sided with APA and put a gun to TWA ALPA's head by stating they'd walk away from the buyout deal unless TWA pilots waived scope and all labor protective provisions (arbitrated integration, Allegheny/Mohawk, etc.).
Out of 2400 TWA pilots, 1300 were stapled to the bottom of the AA seniority list. This number included 200 13-yr 717/S80 CAs, each of whom were subsequently furloughed after 9-11. Out of the 1100 ratioed TWA CAs, which started at #2500 on AA master list ('63 hires placed with '85 seniority)and went 8.14 to 1 all the way to the bottom, over 400 CAs retired and 200 of these CAs were also furloughed. Out of 2400 TWA pilots, only 495 were left after the furloughs, and only 750 are working at AA today. Over 1500 pilots are still furloughed at AA, and 1200 are TWA pilots.
The bottom line: The Bond-McCaskill bill that requires neutral, binding, third-party arbitration for integrating employees was instituted because of what AA and the 'unions' did to the TWA employees after the acquisition. Today, out of 22,500 TWA employees, only 2500 are left at AA.
I'm not here to argue. My whole point is other pilots tend to think all of TWA was completely stapled to the bottom of AA's list. That isn't true.
I stand by everything I wrote. AA parked the 717 fleet. I do not know why those few CA's did not receive reinstatement rights to the S80.
If I was a TWA CA hired in the 1960's and went to 2,000ish on the AA list, yes, i'd be offended. But that is not a staple!
All I know is, me an AA pilot working for AA for a long time when TWA happened and I went below 935 TWA CA's that ALL kept their seats, none of the TWA CA's above me were furloughed or ever had to fly FO.
Yes, it sucks that they chose to stay in STL, they all could have bid out and flown junior CA in almost any other base. Many could have been line holding 767 CA's in any AA base.
7576
08-10-2009, 02:10 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Yes Really. We do have different perspectives.
I'm not here to argue. My whole point is other pilots tend to think all of TWA was completely stapled to the bottom of AA's list. That isn't true.
I stand by everything I wrote. AA parked the 717 fleet. I do not know why those few CA's did not receive reinstatement rights to the S80.
If I was a TWA CA hired in the 1960's and went to 2,000ish on the AA list, yes, i'd be offended. But that is not a staple!
All I know is, me an AA pilot working for AA for a long time when TWA happened and I went below 935 TWA CA's that ALL kept their seats, none of the TWA CA's above me were furloughed or ever had to fly FO.
Yes, it sucks that they chose to stay in STL, they all could have bid out and flown junior CA in almost any other base. Many could have been line holding 767 CA's in any AA base.
7576
I'm not here to argue. My whole point is other pilots tend to think all of TWA was completely stapled to the bottom of AA's list. That isn't true.
I stand by everything I wrote. AA parked the 717 fleet. I do not know why those few CA's did not receive reinstatement rights to the S80.
If I was a TWA CA hired in the 1960's and went to 2,000ish on the AA list, yes, i'd be offended. But that is not a staple!
All I know is, me an AA pilot working for AA for a long time when TWA happened and I went below 935 TWA CA's that ALL kept their seats, none of the TWA CA's above me were furloughed or ever had to fly FO.
Yes, it sucks that they chose to stay in STL, they all could have bid out and flown junior CA in almost any other base. Many could have been line holding 767 CA's in any AA base.
7576
Those 935 CA's that went above you were about 40% of TWA. How many TWA guy's should have gone above you that would have been fair in your eyes?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
4 Fan Trashcan
Mergers and Acquisitions
7
01-28-2009 09:27 AM
