SWA - Frontier Senority List Integration
#141
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 60
no, you might want to listen to their conference call and read the email to their employes. they want the SWA unions to agree to it , that is the deal breakr, not FAPA or Teamsters. don't read things that dont exist. be thankfull if you get a staple at a carrier that will be in biz 6 months from now unlike Frontier.
#142
Wow. Thats pretty much all I can say about you. It'll be your turn someday.
Now to an honest question for the SWA guys. Im just curious if you're union has addressed a situation where a labor agreement cannot be reached. Im just not sure how SWA can submit a bid, win the auction, then decide months later it no longer wants the deal. Would they then sell F9 to someone else? My guess is they want a labor agreement to prevent things like AW/USAIR or AA/TWA. If no agreement is met, they'll just furlough the F9 guys and maybe offer an interview. However, I could be and hope I am completely wrong.
Now to an honest question for the SWA guys. Im just curious if you're union has addressed a situation where a labor agreement cannot be reached. Im just not sure how SWA can submit a bid, win the auction, then decide months later it no longer wants the deal. Would they then sell F9 to someone else? My guess is they want a labor agreement to prevent things like AW/USAIR or AA/TWA. If no agreement is met, they'll just furlough the F9 guys and maybe offer an interview. However, I could be and hope I am completely wrong.
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
OK Mr Wideody captain, let me explain you how the "negotiation" will go:
GaryKelly : hey SWAPA, SWA needs scope relief to operate Frontier as a separate entity for 2 years.
SWAPA: sure, give us what we turned the cba down for and staple FAPA pilots with longevity pay protection and a domicile protection of 5 years.
GK: done
later that day
GK:hey FAPA guys, option one, you agree to this staple job and be thankfull you have a job , loose no income and get to fly out of denver unless you want to move to a SWA domicile
option 2, we shut you down after we buy you wich is cheaper than trying to run you out of biz over the next 2 years...
now Mr Widebody captain, what will you choose?
both unions will "agree" to it, just like GK said.
No integration, no real negotiation, no arbitration.
GaryKelly : hey SWAPA, SWA needs scope relief to operate Frontier as a separate entity for 2 years.
SWAPA: sure, give us what we turned the cba down for and staple FAPA pilots with longevity pay protection and a domicile protection of 5 years.
GK: done
later that day
GK:hey FAPA guys, option one, you agree to this staple job and be thankfull you have a job , loose no income and get to fly out of denver unless you want to move to a SWA domicile
option 2, we shut you down after we buy you wich is cheaper than trying to run you out of biz over the next 2 years...
now Mr Widebody captain, what will you choose?
both unions will "agree" to it, just like GK said.
No integration, no real negotiation, no arbitration.
I don't know why you are so angry over this. I see this whole merger as a good thing for Southwest, if both pilot groups treat each with respect it will make things better for the pilots and the company.
#144
You dont bring routes, planes or Denver. You bring a warm body to sit in a seat and get the plane from A-B. F9 going BK made those other things available. Now the reason some get soooo uptight. Is because the only solution the F9 guys say is B&M and the widfall that you think that might bring. Now what would be fair and equitable? A staple maybe not. But sure as heck not relative or DOH. Those two would be huge windfalls for F9 pilots. You are dreaming if you think a F9 CA should be a 14 YR CA at SWA. Or any FO should be placed on top of a SWA FO. F9 guys what would be a good SLI?
I think it will be a staple for most and a few feathered in. All pay protected with years in service benies. Honestly I think this would be some what fair. Should any SWA pilot have to face furlough as a resault of this. NO! The devil is in the details though. That we will have to wait and see.
I want to see everyone have a job. In the long run I think everyone will. But, man some of you F9 guys think you are just doing fine. Remeber who it is in BK. Who it is that has $2.5 B. Who it is that will provide stable, long term, good paying jobs. Dont think RAH wont throw you under the bus. They have a history of that. SWA has a history of treating its people well. Once you are on the senority list.
I think it will be a staple for most and a few feathered in. All pay protected with years in service benies. Honestly I think this would be some what fair. Should any SWA pilot have to face furlough as a resault of this. NO! The devil is in the details though. That we will have to wait and see.
I want to see everyone have a job. In the long run I think everyone will. But, man some of you F9 guys think you are just doing fine. Remeber who it is in BK. Who it is that has $2.5 B. Who it is that will provide stable, long term, good paying jobs. Dont think RAH wont throw you under the bus. They have a history of that. SWA has a history of treating its people well. Once you are on the senority list.
Last edited by mulcher; 08-12-2009 at 01:44 PM.
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 128
OK Mr Wideody captain, let me explain you how the "negotiation" will go:
GaryKelly : hey SWAPA, SWA needs scope relief to operate Frontier as a separate entity for 2 years.
SWAPA: sure, give us what we turned the cba down for and staple FAPA pilots with longevity pay protection and a domicile protection of 5 years.
GK: done
later that day
GK:hey FAPA guys, option one, you agree to this staple job and be thankfull you have a job , loose no income and get to fly out of denver unless you want to move to a SWA domicile
option 2, we shut you down after we buy you wich is cheaper than trying to run you out of biz over the next 2 years...
now Mr Widebody captain, what will you choose?
both unions will "agree" to it, just like GK said.
No integration, no real negotiation, no arbitration.
GaryKelly : hey SWAPA, SWA needs scope relief to operate Frontier as a separate entity for 2 years.
SWAPA: sure, give us what we turned the cba down for and staple FAPA pilots with longevity pay protection and a domicile protection of 5 years.
GK: done
later that day
GK:hey FAPA guys, option one, you agree to this staple job and be thankfull you have a job , loose no income and get to fly out of denver unless you want to move to a SWA domicile
option 2, we shut you down after we buy you wich is cheaper than trying to run you out of biz over the next 2 years...
now Mr Widebody captain, what will you choose?
both unions will "agree" to it, just like GK said.
No integration, no real negotiation, no arbitration.
Close, but don't think the Domicile protection is going to happen once the F9 person joins the SWAPA list? Needless to say, this is going to be very interesting; unless of course, the F9'ers decide SWA isn't where they want to be? If you think about it just a little you will realize that FAPA could kill this deal in a second if they decide to play hard ball with SWAPA. Good luck to all involved.
#146
You dont bring routes, planes or Denver. You bring a warm body to sit in a seat and get the plane from A-B. F9 going BK made those other things available. Now the reason some get soooo uptight. Is because the only solution the F9 guys say is B&M and the widfall that you think that might bring. Now what would be fair and equitable? A staple maybe not. But sure as heck not relative or DOH. Those two would be huge windfalls for F9 pilots. You are dreaming if you think a F9 CA should be a 14 YR CA at SWA. Or any FO should be placed on top of a SWA FO. F9 guys what would be a good SLI?
I think it will be a staple for most and a few feathered in. All pay protected with years in service benies. Honestly I think this would be some what fair. Should any SWA pilot have to face furlough as a resault of this. NO! The devil is in the details though. That we will have to wait and see.
I want to see everyone have a job. In the long run I think everyone will. But, man some of you F9 guys think you are just doing fine. Remeber who it is in BK. Who it is that has $2.5 B. Who it is that will provide stable, long term, good paying jobs. Dont think RAH wont throw you under the bus. They have a history of that. SWA has a history of treating its people well. Once you are on the senority list.
I think it will be a staple for most and a few feathered in. All pay protected with years in service benies. Honestly I think this would be some what fair. Should any SWA pilot have to face furlough as a resault of this. NO! The devil is in the details though. That we will have to wait and see.
I want to see everyone have a job. In the long run I think everyone will. But, man some of you F9 guys think you are just doing fine. Remeber who it is in BK. Who it is that has $2.5 B. Who it is that will provide stable, long term, good paying jobs. Dont think RAH wont throw you under the bus. They have a history of that. SWA has a history of treating its people well. Once you are on the senority list.
2. History of throwing people under the bus?????WHAT???? Name one time.
3. Wasn't it RAH that supplied F9 the DIP financing to keep them afloat last fall? Where was SW then. Some of you SW guys so arrogant it's sick.
#147
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 61
Heres the way I see this going. RAH has pulled back the covers, and Southwest is about to hop in the bed. Lynx will be an RAH company by the end of this year. Lynx will provide regional lift for Southwest in exchange for lowering the cash Southwest has to pay RAH for being frontiers largest unsecured creditor. Also as a part of this new partnership, Southwest and Midwest will become codeshare partners, Southwest large expansion in MKE will become small expansion. And everyone will come out winning.
#148
1. What he is saying here is DON'T FORGET WHO IS IN CHARGE HERE GIRLS.
2. History of throwing people under the bus?????WHAT???? Name one time.
3. Wasn't it RAH that supplied F9 the DIP financing to keep them afloat last fall? Where was SW then. Some of you SW guys so arrogant it's sick.
2. History of throwing people under the bus?????WHAT???? Name one time.
3. Wasn't it RAH that supplied F9 the DIP financing to keep them afloat last fall? Where was SW then. Some of you SW guys so arrogant it's sick.
It's business. They're hoping to get a return on their investment in some form or another. BTW are Midwest pilots happy about their deal with RAH?
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 296
no, you might want to listen to their conference call and read the email to their employes. they want the SWA unions to agree to it , that is the deal breakr, not FAPA or Teamsters. don't read things that dont exist. be thankfull if you get a staple at a carrier that will be in biz 6 months from now unlike Frontier.
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 296
Could this be the beginning of a regional feed for SWA? You guys have been around long enough, have a large mkt share and service a large number of cities. The Lynx part of the deal will be interesting to see how it unfolds. Please show the rest of us that you can be successful at bringing these guys on the mainline list with better pay and bennies. Maybe us Legacy guys can continue to fight to bring back the feeders to mainline ourselves. Best of luck.
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