SWA - Frontier Senority List Integration
08-12-2009, 05:43 AM
#121
Don't want to participate
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: 737 Left Seat
Posts: 1,016
It doesn't matter who is buying who. There are laws to prevent staples. That being said. Let's say you are right. All of the Frontier pilots lose their job because they won't agree to a staple. Didn't the Frontier pilots voluntarily decide to work for less money so they would keep Frontier in business and not be faced with situations like this? Wouldn't it be funny if they all lose their jobs anyway? I think it would. I don't have much respect for people that degrade their own value voluntarily.
08-12-2009, 05:48 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 919
It doesn't matter who is buying who. There are laws to prevent staples. That being said. Let's say you are right. All of the Frontier pilots lose their job because they won't agree to a staple. Didn't the Frontier pilots voluntarily decide to work for less money so they would keep Frontier in business and not be faced with situations like this? Wouldn't it be funny if they all lose their jobs anyway? I think it would. I don't have much respect for people that degrade their own value voluntarily.
Wow. Thats pretty much all I can say about you. It'll be your turn someday.
Now to an honest question for the SWA guys. Im just curious if you're union has addressed a situation where a labor agreement cannot be reached. Im just not sure how SWA can submit a bid, win the auction, then decide months later it no longer wants the deal. Would they then sell F9 to someone else? My guess is they want a labor agreement to prevent things like AW/USAIR or AA/TWA. If no agreement is met, they'll just furlough the F9 guys and maybe offer an interview. However, I could be and hope I am completely wrong.
08-12-2009, 05:52 AM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: FO
Posts: 179
With all the talk of SLI with Frontier, how does Lynx fit into the mix? Lynx was part of the bid and if you follow the same logic, then the Lynx pilots would have to be integrated as well. How would Frontier pilots feel if a Lynx pilot went ahead of them in an integration? There are too many variables to accurately perdict how this is going to turn out.
08-12-2009, 06:21 AM
#124
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 182
My guess is that Lynx will be sold to another regional. I don't think Southwest is interested in running a regional. They might contract back with them because there is a big demand for Dash flying in Colorado. United has quite a bit and SW will want to be competitive.
08-12-2009, 06:32 AM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
How come some of you guys here fail to understand that this is not a merger? SWA is buying a bankrupt airline and it will, wiht the blessing of SWAPA,operate it as a separate airline while it downsizes it and gets rid of every emplyoee there. get it? there is no merger. If SWA decides to offer jobs to the Frontier guys the SWA unions, specially the piltos one due to their scope, need to agree to the offer, and it will be nothing more than a staple and you hould be thankfull for that.
no integraton, no arbitration, this is not a merger...get it?
no integraton, no arbitration, this is not a merger...get it?
08-12-2009, 06:34 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: FO
Posts: 179
SWA has said they plan on operating Lynx, at least for a time until they can better understand how it would fit in. (Playing the devil's advocate) Lynx may be new, but how can they not be denied a SLI just on the fact they fly T-Ps. The MB Amendment was supposedly put in place to protect jobs in an airline integration so they could have an argument that they deserve as much a place on the SWAPA seniority list as a Frontier pilot. If it ever went to arbitration there is no prediction on how it could end up. It is possible that Lynx pilots could end up ahead of some Frontier pilots since "fair and equitable" is not based on DOH.
08-12-2009, 06:35 AM
#127
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Wow. Thats pretty much all I can say about you. It'll be your turn someday.
Now to an honest question for the SWA guys. Im just curious if you're union has addressed a situation where a labor agreement cannot be reached. Im just not sure how SWA can submit a bid, win the auction, then decide months later it no longer wants the deal. Would they then sell F9 to someone else? My guess is they want a labor agreement to prevent things like AW/USAIR or AA/TWA. If no agreement is met, they'll just furlough the F9 guys and maybe offer an interview. However, I could be and hope I am completely wrong.
Now to an honest question for the SWA guys. Im just curious if you're union has addressed a situation where a labor agreement cannot be reached. Im just not sure how SWA can submit a bid, win the auction, then decide months later it no longer wants the deal. Would they then sell F9 to someone else? My guess is they want a labor agreement to prevent things like AW/USAIR or AA/TWA. If no agreement is met, they'll just furlough the F9 guys and maybe offer an interview. However, I could be and hope I am completely wrong.
I guess I'm one of a few that wonders when Aug 13th comes and goes & WN hits the 'winning bid', and there can be no agreement between the labor groups after a 'binding bid' is put in the mix....does WN have to figure out how the deal with the 'plate' they bought, or can they back out of a binding bid citing no agreement up front between pilot labor groups??
We all remember how "Binding" arbitrations have gone in recent history
Southwest submits $170 mln binding bid for Frontier
08-12-2009, 06:49 AM
#128
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,918
Quoted directly from Supp CC:
• The 1,095 most senior TWA pilots as of April 10, 2001 will be inserted in the AA Pilot Seniority
List on a ratio of approximately one TWA pilot to 8.1763 AA pilots, commencing
immediately following AA pilot number 2596 as of April 10, 2001 and ending immediately following the last AA pilot hired prior to April 10,
2001.
• The remaining TWA pilots will be placed in seniority order immediately following TWA pilot ----------, hired 3/20/89.
Given that there were almost 2400 total pilots at TWA pre-buyout, using simple math: 2400 total minus 1095 integrated = 1305 stapled. Which represents approximately 47% integrated, 53% stapled. That's pretty close to half/half. Yes, I'm sure.
73
• The 1,095 most senior TWA pilots as of April 10, 2001 will be inserted in the AA Pilot Seniority
List on a ratio of approximately one TWA pilot to 8.1763 AA pilots, commencing
immediately following AA pilot number 2596 as of April 10, 2001 and ending immediately following the last AA pilot hired prior to April 10,
2001.
• The remaining TWA pilots will be placed in seniority order immediately following TWA pilot ----------, hired 3/20/89.
Given that there were almost 2400 total pilots at TWA pre-buyout, using simple math: 2400 total minus 1095 integrated = 1305 stapled. Which represents approximately 47% integrated, 53% stapled. That's pretty close to half/half. Yes, I'm sure.
73
08-12-2009, 07:25 AM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 296
I have to agree with Patch.
From what I've read from company emails, unless we as a labor union approve this deal, the deal will fall through. How true this is I don't know. But this does give SWAPA some leverage.
It seems to me, that most pilots want a staple with pay and domicile protection for the frontier guys, instead of just preferential interviewing.
From what I've read from company emails, unless we as a labor union approve this deal, the deal will fall through. How true this is I don't know. But this does give SWAPA some leverage.
It seems to me, that most pilots want a staple with pay and domicile protection for the frontier guys, instead of just preferential interviewing.
08-12-2009, 07:30 AM
#130
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
From the conference call two days ago between Swa execs and the press:
The labor agreements don't have to be in place until prior to closing the deal which is actually 4-6 months after the bidding process ends.
Like buying a house, you put in an offer, offer is accepted, then you wait for a while to get everything finalized and then you go to closing.
The labor agreements don't have to be in place until prior to closing the deal which is actually 4-6 months after the bidding process ends.
Like buying a house, you put in an offer, offer is accepted, then you wait for a while to get everything finalized and then you go to closing.
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