flaps 9

You just now figured this out

As I've been saying all along this is an acquisition, not a merger.

I just hope I'm not on the wrong end of one of these deals someday....

ToiletDuck

It's a merger because F9 is structured to exit BK and the board can deny the sell. Midwest/Republic is an acquisition.

TPROP4ever

Well, I guess the only guarantee here is just like every other merger in the history of Aviation......


If RAH wins, the pilot group will be accused of stealing jobs,
If SWA wins, their pilot group will be accused of stealing jobs......

Whoever wins instantly becomes the badguy....the story of aviation mergers for decades...sad but true, and the infighting goes on and on and on and on........

B757200ER

Greetings once again...

I doubt seriously all F9 pilots are okay with 100% staple. I can't speak to that. Ask them, not me. I feel their pain and frustration if SWA buys them, and I see the rhetoric already, so similar to '01 it scares me.

As far as the comment 'we integrated almost half your pilots', that isn't true. AA stapled 1300 TWA pilots, including 200 13-yr seniority CAs to the bottom, below not only new-hire, probationary F/Es, but 386 pilots who weren't interviewed, hadn't been hired, weren't trained and had no seniority number when AA announced they would buy TWA. Out of the 1100 that were ratioed in the AA list, starting at #2500 to the bottom, over half were FERB'ed (retired) and some of those (all 13-yr CAs or higher) were even furloughed while you kept your job.

Your question about '53% staple/47% integration' being a sore spot can be explained like this: AA bought TWA, and TWA was a major Air Carrier that had 200 aircraft and had a 76-yr history. You're damn right we had a problem with the wholesale destruction of the TWA seniority list (out of 2400 pilots when acquired only 750 are left flying at AA). Now, with SWA (a large major air carrier with over 550 jets) buying an LCC with 51 jets and only a 15-yr pedigree, the circumstances are different.

Would TWA pilots have taken a 100% staple at SWA? NO WAY!

Lastly, your question about furloughs is interesting. If I had kept my same job (B-767-I middle seniority F/O in STL) and had a 25% raise with no QOL changes, maybe I would have been okay, even if I hadn't upgraded until age 55. But that isn't what happened---I've been on the street almost seven years, and no recalls or upgrades in sight. IOW, career at 'integrated' AA over.

I know exactly what F9 pilots are feeling right now; I've been there. All I hope is that Bond/McCaskill applies and the seniority integration is arbitrated. THAT would be fair; a 100% staple would not. But, that's for an arbitrator to decide.

Reroute

If you all can't come to an agreement, save your arguments for the arbitrator, because that's probably where this thing is going.

alfaromeo

I don't think so. SW management said there will be a consensual deal between FAPA and SWAPA or there will be no deal. It is a conditional offer to the bankruptcy court. Sounds like both sides should get real, real quickly. As I said in another post seniority mergers bring out the worst in people.

SW is a stronger company with a better balance sheet. F9 brings important assets that SW is willing to pay for. It doesn't matter who buys whom, that is not a factor, the two lists are coming together. SW has to adapt their airline to the new reality, they will become more like Frontier in the future, this is an important first step for them. Each side brings equities to the merger.

Keep it simple, make any fences short, don't fight each other to the death, it is not worth it. Each side should remember that in the end you will be one group, protect each other's interests and it will serve you in the future.

greedyairlineexec

How come some of you guys here fail to understand that this is not a merger? SWA is buying a bankrupt airline and it will, wiht the blessing of SWAPA,operate it as a separate airline while it downsizes it and gets rid of every emplyoee there. get it? there is no merger. If SWA decides to offer jobs to the Frontier guys the SWA unions, specially the piltos one due to their scope, need to agree to the offer, and it will be nothing more than a staple and you hould be thankfull for that.

no integraton, no arbitration, this is not a merger...get it?

aa73

Thanks for the response, ER. We're not debating the merit of AA pilots keeping their jobs while TWA pilots hit the streets, that was expected since AA was the buyer and TWA did not have any leverage whatsoever, thanks to the ALPA sellout - and the APA looking out for its own. What we ARE debating are the percentages of the integration. In the end, the facts speak for themselves - we DID integrate almost half of your seniority list. Approximately 1300 pilots were stapled, and 1100 were integrated at 8:1, which represents about a 53%-47% split. You tend to make it sound like we stapled the majority, which is not the case.

Good luck to F9/SWA.
73

navigatro

Are you sure about that last statement?

hockeypilot44

It doesn't matter who is buying who. There are laws to prevent staples. That being said. Let's say you are right. All of the Frontier pilots lose their job because they won't agree to a staple. Didn't the Frontier pilots voluntarily decide to work for less money so they would keep Frontier in business and not be faced with situations like this? Wouldn't it be funny if they all lose their jobs anyway? I think it would. I don't have much respect for people that degrade their own value voluntarily.