Frontier B Scale
07-29-2007, 08:29 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,610
Frontier B Scale
My friend and I were discussing some of the major carriers that could be a career destination. I said I liked Frontier because they seem to be a rightly sized airline based in a nice area to live (Colorado) and they were fairly middle of the road as far as pay and benefits. He told me about their new contract and how they voted in a B scale for first year pilots, lowering their pay from $52/hr to $37/hr. I was unaware of this.
Before I make a judgement about Frontier, I wanted to get the facts straight. Is this true? Did current Frontier pilots vote in a B scale for new pilots, lowering their wage from a somewhat ok first year wage of $52/hr to a poverty level $37/hr? What was the reasoning given for this? Doesn't Frontier's pilots union realize that all pilots go through first year pay, but only a few get max captain pay?
I hope there is some noble reason for this, but I just can't see how you can compromise on a lower first year pay. When will everyone wake up and figure out that fixing this profession needs to start from the bottom and work its way up!
Before I make a judgement about Frontier, I wanted to get the facts straight. Is this true? Did current Frontier pilots vote in a B scale for new pilots, lowering their wage from a somewhat ok first year wage of $52/hr to a poverty level $37/hr? What was the reasoning given for this? Doesn't Frontier's pilots union realize that all pilots go through first year pay, but only a few get max captain pay?
I hope there is some noble reason for this, but I just can't see how you can compromise on a lower first year pay. When will everyone wake up and figure out that fixing this profession needs to start from the bottom and work its way up!
07-29-2007, 08:39 AM
#2
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Good Luck with that.
My friend and I were discussing some of the major carriers that could be a career destination. I said I liked Frontier because they seem to be a rightly sized airline based in a nice area to live (Colorado) and they were fairly middle of the road as far as pay and benefits. He told me about their new contract and how they voted in a B scale for first year pilots, lowering their pay from $52/hr to $37/hr. I was unaware of this.
Before I make a judgement about Frontier, I wanted to get the facts straight. Is this true? Did current Frontier pilots vote in a B scale for new pilots, lowering their wage from a somewhat ok first year wage of $52/hr to a poverty level $37/hr? What was the reasoning given for this? Doesn't Frontier's pilots union realize that all pilots go through first year pay, but only a few get max captain pay?
I hope there is some noble reason for this, but I just can't see how you can compromise on a lower first year pay. When will everyone wake up and figure out that fixing this profession needs to start from the bottom and work its way up!
Before I make a judgement about Frontier, I wanted to get the facts straight. Is this true? Did current Frontier pilots vote in a B scale for new pilots, lowering their wage from a somewhat ok first year wage of $52/hr to a poverty level $37/hr? What was the reasoning given for this? Doesn't Frontier's pilots union realize that all pilots go through first year pay, but only a few get max captain pay?
I hope there is some noble reason for this, but I just can't see how you can compromise on a lower first year pay. When will everyone wake up and figure out that fixing this profession needs to start from the bottom and work its way up!
SkyHigh
07-29-2007, 10:45 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"Did current Frontier pilots vote in a B scale for new pilots"
First year pay isn't really what you think of when you hear the term, "B scale".
Another thing to consider is the rest of the contract, too. Not that I know anything about Frontier's contract, but, I saw at UPS that there is give and take in everything. In considering an entire contract, voting no just because of first year pay, is pretty extreme.
First year pay isn't really what you think of when you hear the term, "B scale".
Another thing to consider is the rest of the contract, too. Not that I know anything about Frontier's contract, but, I saw at UPS that there is give and take in everything. In considering an entire contract, voting no just because of first year pay, is pretty extreme.
07-29-2007, 10:54 AM
#4
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,618
Originally Posted by de727ups
In considering an entire contract, voting no just because of first year pay, is pretty extreme.
07-29-2007, 11:00 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: MD 11 FO
Posts: 152
Since you were an intern at one time for company X, did you have a particular pilot group in mind? There is always more to the story, and maybe once you have been around the block once or twice you will see. That being said most new hires technically aren't covered while on probation so year one is what the company thinks your worth, and year 2-...... is what the union can negotiate.
07-29-2007, 11:19 AM
#6
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,618
Since you were an intern at one time for company X, did you have a particular pilot group in mind? There is always more to the story, and maybe once you have been around the block once or twice you will see. That being said most new hires technically aren't covered while on probation so year one is what the company thinks your worth, and year 2-...... is what the union can negotiate.
This thread is about Frontier, is it not?Yes I was a co-op at UPS in 2005, during contract negotiations but before the TA, and yes I very much would like to work for UPS in the future. I am fully aware of what UPS management's position was regarding newhire pilots and their compensation during negotiations. I also know that folks left UPS while still in training for SWA and FDX, in no small part due to their higher probationary compensation.
Knowing that, it still would be nice to see negotiating capital spent to ensure a reasonable wage for probationary pilots and nowhere is that more evident than at the regional level where I currently am. FedEx pays a reasonable wage to first-year pilots, as does Southwest and Delta (under a concessionary agreement, no less). Those rates weren't benevolently gifted to them by management, they were fought for and paid for with negotiating capital by the whole pilot group.
Considering the number of folks on APC and FI that complain about the bottom-dollar probationary rates at United, Northwest, US Airways, Continental and even at UPS...I would have thought the topic of higher probationary compensation would have near-universal agreement among professional pilots.
07-29-2007, 06:39 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: MD 11 FO
Posts: 152
WTF is up with folks on this board always assuming I'm bagging on UPS, the IPA or your pilot group? This thread is about Frontier, is it not?
Yes I was a co-op at UPS in 2005, during contract negotiations but before the TA, and yes I very much would like to work for UPS in the future. I am fully aware of what UPS management's position was regarding newhire pilots and their compensation during negotiations. I also know that folks left UPS while still in training for SWA and FDX, in no small part due to their higher probationary compensation.
Knowing that, it still would be nice to see negotiating capital spent to ensure a reasonable wage for probationary pilots and nowhere is that more evident than at the regional level where I currently am. FedEx pays a reasonable wage to first-year pilots, as does Southwest and Delta (under a concessionary agreement, no less). Those rates weren't benevolently gifted to them by management, they were fought for and paid for with negotiating capital by the whole pilot group.
Considering the number of folks on APC and FI that complain about the bottom-dollar probationary rates at United, Northwest, US Airways, Continental and even at UPS...I would have thought the topic of higher probationary compensation would have near-universal agreement among professional pilots.
This thread is about Frontier, is it not?Yes I was a co-op at UPS in 2005, during contract negotiations but before the TA, and yes I very much would like to work for UPS in the future. I am fully aware of what UPS management's position was regarding newhire pilots and their compensation during negotiations. I also know that folks left UPS while still in training for SWA and FDX, in no small part due to their higher probationary compensation.
Knowing that, it still would be nice to see negotiating capital spent to ensure a reasonable wage for probationary pilots and nowhere is that more evident than at the regional level where I currently am. FedEx pays a reasonable wage to first-year pilots, as does Southwest and Delta (under a concessionary agreement, no less). Those rates weren't benevolently gifted to them by management, they were fought for and paid for with negotiating capital by the whole pilot group.
Considering the number of folks on APC and FI that complain about the bottom-dollar probationary rates at United, Northwest, US Airways, Continental and even at UPS...I would have thought the topic of higher probationary compensation would have near-universal agreement among professional pilots.
07-29-2007, 06:55 PM
#8
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,618
07-29-2007, 07:46 PM
#9
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 60
Unfortunetly the majority did vote to lower first year pay. It was the usual flawed reasoning, I've got mine and had to suffer so should you. The money was redistributed to the DC plan. I am ashamed everytime I meet a new hire that is under the new payrates. I would definetly consider going elsewhere just because of long term viability reasons with F9.
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