the "New" Frontier - breaks away from ULCC ?
05-18-2024, 11:08 AM
#21
Almost there
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,311
United 2023 CASM is 16.99 and 12.03 excluding fuel
Frontier 2023 CASM is 9.5 and 6.51 excluding fuel
Running the APU less saves us 2-4 million a year
I am also struggling to see your point since I assume you know this information already as much as you discuss finances.
Frontier 2023 CASM is 9.5 and 6.51 excluding fuel
Running the APU less saves us 2-4 million a year
I am also struggling to see your point since I assume you know this information already as much as you discuss finances.
05-18-2024, 07:28 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,341
United 2023 CASM is 16.99 and 12.03 excluding fuel
Frontier 2023 CASM is 9.5 and 6.51 excluding fuel
Running the APU less saves us 2-4 million a year
I am also struggling to see your point since I assume you know this information already as much as you discuss finances.
Frontier 2023 CASM is 9.5 and 6.51 excluding fuel
Running the APU less saves us 2-4 million a year
I am also struggling to see your point since I assume you know this information already as much as you discuss finances.
My "bigger point" is labor is a big cost. When we all shake our pom-poms to run CASMS at half of the majors, the other side of the table is going to tell us, "great idea, guess how we will accomplish your very good idea."
My understanding is "labor" is a piece of CASM calculation....
05-18-2024, 08:14 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 74
United's multi-aircraft fleet costs aside....
My "bigger point" is labor is a big cost. When we all shake our pom-poms to run CASMS at half of the majors, the other side of the table is going to tell us, "great idea, guess how we will accomplish your very good idea."
My understanding is "labor" is a piece of CASM calculation....
My "bigger point" is labor is a big cost. When we all shake our pom-poms to run CASMS at half of the majors, the other side of the table is going to tell us, "great idea, guess how we will accomplish your very good idea."
My understanding is "labor" is a piece of CASM calculation....
Labor is a piece of CASM, but even excluding labor we're still ahead.
UAL and F9 both reported 1Q results for '24.
UALs CASM was 17.36 cents (Total operating expenses / ASMs.) (12,440M / 71,668M.)
F9 reported 9.49 cents (896M / 9,446M.)
If we eliminate labor from these calculations, UAL falls to 11.87 cents and F9 to 7.02 cents.
Yes, labor costs are up across the industry, but so is F9 customer dissatisfaction for reasons discussed on APC almost daily. If we put a little more money into training, hiring, and paying talented people above and below the gate, we might just have a chance.
05-19-2024, 10:34 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2024
Posts: 104
So, we are not charging for carry on bags anymore? I guess harassing passengers and putting bounties on them for gate agents to collect on wasn't the gold mine BB hoped for. I personally like this new direction. If executed properly it could be a game changer. Fingers crossed.
Hard stands in DEN is still worrisome.
Hard stands in DEN is still worrisome.
05-19-2024, 12:26 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 46
So, we are not charging for carry on bags anymore? I guess harassing passengers and putting bounties on them for gate agents to collect on wasn't the gold mine BB hoped for. I personally like this new direction. If executed properly it could be a game changer. Fingers crossed.
Hard stands in DEN is still worrisome.
Hard stands in DEN is still worrisome.
Sounds good in theory, but in practice what will happen is people will still buy the cheapest fare with no add ons, and then argue with a GA over every additional fee. Status quo.
05-19-2024, 01:02 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 204
F9s low CASM has everything to do with outsourcing all labor except FAs, pilots and MX. Also no real presence in airports with gate appeal, customer lounges and an overall attempt to make phx feel welcomed. All of that will cost more and those low CASMs will creep up. Then F9 has to really start competing w/ UA,AA, DAL WN. I see $103 vs $129.
Most people will pick the $130 to have a better chance of getting somewhere on time with more options of time to travel and a less "we hate the customer" contract gate agent vibe.
Most people will pick the $130 to have a better chance of getting somewhere on time with more options of time to travel and a less "we hate the customer" contract gate agent vibe.
05-19-2024, 02:14 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,482
F9s low CASM has everything to do with outsourcing all labor except FAs, pilots and MX. Also no real presence in airports with gate appeal, customer lounges and an overall attempt to make phx feel welcomed. All of that will cost more and those low CASMs will creep up. Then F9 has to really start competing w/ UA,AA, DAL WN. I see $103 vs $129.
Most people will pick the $130 to have a better chance of getting somewhere on time with more options of time to travel and a less "we hate the customer" contract gate agent vibe.
Most people will pick the $130 to have a better chance of getting somewhere on time with more options of time to travel and a less "we hate the customer" contract gate agent vibe.
And the $103 vs $129 price comparison was just a single, random data point. The legacies are more like $400/ direction average where we are about $100, 110.
05-19-2024, 02:16 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,482
It is possible to still purchase items (carry ons, checked bags, seats) a la carte if someone chooses. I think the premise here is it’s cheaper in most cases to purchase the bundle that fits what the passenger wants than the a la carte method.
Sounds good in theory, but in practice what will happen is people will still buy the cheapest fare with no add ons, and then argue with a GA over every additional fee. Status quo.
Sounds good in theory, but in practice what will happen is people will still buy the cheapest fare with no add ons, and then argue with a GA over every additional fee. Status quo.
05-19-2024, 04:04 PM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 86
Totally agree, WNBA is going all charter. We could do the whole league, just leave the middle seat open and the whole plane is upfront plus🤣
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