Planedrive

The only mistake our union has made so far is asking for industry average pay to start. We should have asked for Delta plus 10% and accepted Delta plus 3%. We have no room to give concessions off our ask because we gave this management group a reasonable offer out of the gate.

This is how pattern bargaining works. You can laugh all you want but in 2019 and 2020 Sun Country had the highest narrowbody pay rates. They were then surpassed by Alaska, who was passed by DAL, followed by UAL, AAL & Southwest.

Small airlines like Sun Country, Allegiant, Spirit, and Frontier can and should help set the bar.

fcoolaiddrinker

There’s a provision to increase pay rates as other recent contracts move forward that will increase our initial rate proposal as Thier pay rates increase with cola and Thier similar snap up provisions. That’s the pattern. I believe all other alpa snap up provisions have occurred already but I’m not 100%? important to capture that provision imo.

fcoolaiddrinker

These are some of the arguments management makes in negotiations. I’m not saying there’s no value in those arguments however its margins that count. Last round f9 had 20% margins and our top 320 captain is $273 DL was $283. Now there is a slope problem that exists Lower down on the longevity scale that’s getting fixed but that’s an entire conversation in of itself why that is.
Legacies have the ability to sell premium seats but have less seats per same airframe. We have 240 seats so an additional 40 plus seats to offset that. That’s one historically effective counter the union will argue.

In the end the NMB recognizes current rates of same aircraft in the United States are the current market rates. That’s about where they expect rates to end up in mediation. If they don’t that’s another conversation.

ClearCreek

#Contract2027 at this rate.

ColdWhiskey

Excellent Post!!! When I got hired at Frontier, we were the highest paid Airbus A320 operator in the United States. I don't understand why so many of you think we deserve less because we are a low cost carrier. That is the business model F9 has chosen. It has nothing to do with the cost of fuel, gate rental, or pilot wages.

With that being said, I might make an argument with you regarding "only mistake our union has made".

Flyhigh44

Yes it is true that there are diffrent sized airlines in the industry, but the industry rate is the rate. You state that smaller airlines cant pay the going rate, well i disagree with you. Alaska/ Hawaiian. They are paying the industry rate and are a fraction of the size of United/American.and Delta. Frontier that workmthe contract and work extra get rewarded with more pay, just like the SWA FO making captain pay. The truth is we are underpaid right now and that will change. Contract negotiations in the airline world take time, Its just how it is unfortunately, just stay informed and dont get emotional, Its just bussiness.

zoooropa

Frontier has never, ever, been the "highest paid 320 operator in the united states". The only way that could be possible is if no other airline operated 320's in the US.

zoooropa

RASM as a stand alone data point is meaningless. What does it cost to move an F9 seat? It is about 52% lower. DAL still has higher margins thanks to more seats across a larger fleet, higher revenue international ops, cargo, etc, but please don't imply RASM is going to dictate rates. F9's RASM will increase in the future thanks to industry shift and CASM will remain stable. They can afford market rates.

Aero1900

Actually we were.

After United did their 4 year trip thru bankruptcy (2002 to 2006) they took concessions (a 29% pay cut in 2003)and made Frontier the highest paid bus pilots. And then we went thru bankruptcy and took concessions. We've been behind ever since.

BagMan

There is to much talk about how we are accepting a contract with lower pay because we are F9, as opposed to Delta.

All I can say is that people will pay you what you THINK your worth. Looks like some of us have an Inferiority complex. If your one of these people you need to get over it.

Frontier is a ULCC we have Cheap gates, contract Gate agents ,Mechanics, Rampers, almost no parts department, Very few in managment, discount Ipads (last ones were refurbished rose gold ) cheap knock off apps possably a hand full of crew schedulers, and not much support from the CPO. Hell F9 can afford to have somewhere between 5-15% of the pilot group sitting around a hotel for a 24hr strech. This is ULCC. It works by having Low Overhead. With that said Berry gets paid well beyond his skill level, that man is not saying "I work at a ULCC so i guess I need to accept that I will get paid less". Next time you walk through the airport look at all the rampers,Mechanics ,gate agents working for a Legacy, and understand they are all making 30-75% more then the people who work for us. All of these people would like to get paid more. but they can't. Why? If the contractor who employes them charged more they would be replaced.

WE ARE NOT REPLACEABLE not all at once at least. The reality is that by keeping our pay rates low Berry and Co have been able to line their wallets. With all the poor decision making going on around F9 there is plenty of money on the table. Higher pay rates may come with worse work rules ,but these are things we can Vote on later. First we all need to get on board with the Idea that A320 pilots should all make about the same. Then Realize that getting a raise out of berry is no easier then getting a raise out of any of your previous bosses. They always hold until the it's almost to late. They never give you a raise unless it is required to keep the mechine humming. We all have been working hard and getting things done. We have shown that we are worth the money. We just need the patience and composure to see it through.

The Low Overhead is Us only if we allow it to be.