How long for a contract?
09-20-2024, 11:16 AM
#711
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Position: Joystick Operator
Posts: 910
Legacy Carrier Pay (A321, 12-year pay scale)
- Captain: $389/hour
- First Officer: $266/hour
Frontier Pay
- Captain: $270/hour
- First Officer: $179/hour
Additionally, there’s a disparity in retirement benefits, with a 15% 401k contribution at Frontier versus 18% at the legacy carrier. No profit-sharing at Frontier. The discrepancies continue across various aspects of compensation and benefits.
There is no reason we shouldn’t achieve a 100% voter turnout with a 100% “yes” vote. Frontier Captains earn $119 per hour less while taking on double the workload due to outsourcing every other department to the lowest bidding contractors. First Officers are paid $90 per hour less. Meanwhile, the cost of living has increased by 25% over the past four years due to inflation. Our pay increases haven’t come close to covering the increased cost of living.
Barry is forecasting a double digit profit margin next year. It’s time to pay up!
- Captain: $389/hour
- First Officer: $266/hour
Frontier Pay
- Captain: $270/hour
- First Officer: $179/hour
Additionally, there’s a disparity in retirement benefits, with a 15% 401k contribution at Frontier versus 18% at the legacy carrier. No profit-sharing at Frontier. The discrepancies continue across various aspects of compensation and benefits.
There is no reason we shouldn’t achieve a 100% voter turnout with a 100% “yes” vote. Frontier Captains earn $119 per hour less while taking on double the workload due to outsourcing every other department to the lowest bidding contractors. First Officers are paid $90 per hour less. Meanwhile, the cost of living has increased by 25% over the past four years due to inflation. Our pay increases haven’t come close to covering the increased cost of living.
Barry is forecasting a double digit profit margin next year. It’s time to pay up!
09-20-2024, 11:34 AM
#712
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,345
Legacy Carrier Pay (A321, 12-year pay scale)
- Captain: $389/hour
- First Officer: $266/hour
Frontier Pay
- Captain: $270/hour
- First Officer: $179/hour
Additionally, there’s a disparity in retirement benefits, with a 15% 401k contribution at Frontier versus 18% at the legacy carrier. No profit-sharing at Frontier. The discrepancies continue across various aspects of compensation and benefits.
There is no reason we shouldn’t achieve a 100% voter turnout with a 100% “yes” vote. Frontier Captains earn $119 per hour less while taking on double the workload due to outsourcing every other department to the lowest bidding contractors. First Officers are paid $90 per hour less. Meanwhile, the cost of living has increased by 25% over the past four years due to inflation. Our pay increases haven’t come close to covering the increased cost of living.
Barry is forecasting a double digit profit margin next year. It’s time to pay up!
- Captain: $389/hour
- First Officer: $266/hour
Frontier Pay
- Captain: $270/hour
- First Officer: $179/hour
Additionally, there’s a disparity in retirement benefits, with a 15% 401k contribution at Frontier versus 18% at the legacy carrier. No profit-sharing at Frontier. The discrepancies continue across various aspects of compensation and benefits.
There is no reason we shouldn’t achieve a 100% voter turnout with a 100% “yes” vote. Frontier Captains earn $119 per hour less while taking on double the workload due to outsourcing every other department to the lowest bidding contractors. First Officers are paid $90 per hour less. Meanwhile, the cost of living has increased by 25% over the past four years due to inflation. Our pay increases haven’t come close to covering the increased cost of living.
Barry is forecasting a double digit profit margin next year. It’s time to pay up!
contrary to popular belief, yes they can drop trips also. No, they are "not going bankrupt tomorrow"
The huge influx of Big-3 pilots in our new hire classes is the proof in the pudding that our QOL and overall benefits package is amazing
will Barry take notice?
who knows
09-20-2024, 02:04 PM
#713
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2024
Posts: 2
[QUOTE=hercretired;3838477]Year-2 Big-3 FO pay is Frontier Year-12 FO pay
contrary to popular belief, yes they can drop trips also. No, they are "not going bankrupt tomorrow"
The huge influx of Big-3 pilots in our new hire classes is the proof in the pudding that our QOL and overall benefits package is amazing
will Barry take notice?
who knows[
Some might, purely for a domicile, which happens everywhere. But are people lined up leaving a big three carrier to go to Frontier? I'd say not. You justify qol blah blah blah, but it's about the end game. Who's gonna have more earnings and retirement? I work for a big three, and I can assure you, any one I work with doesn't say I'm building time to go to Frontier!
contrary to popular belief, yes they can drop trips also. No, they are "not going bankrupt tomorrow"
The huge influx of Big-3 pilots in our new hire classes is the proof in the pudding that our QOL and overall benefits package is amazing
will Barry take notice?
who knows[
Some might, purely for a domicile, which happens everywhere. But are people lined up leaving a big three carrier to go to Frontier? I'd say not. You justify qol blah blah blah, but it's about the end game. Who's gonna have more earnings and retirement? I work for a big three, and I can assure you, any one I work with doesn't say I'm building time to go to Frontier!
09-20-2024, 05:11 PM
#714
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,339
Out of curiosity, what do most people realistically expect regarding the bigger monetary aspects such as rates, retirement contributions, and profit sharing? Not including the always swing at the first pitch or the no to everything crowd, but the majority of line pilots. Do you expect parity with current legacy contracts, legacy plus a little, legacy minus a little...?
09-20-2024, 05:35 PM
#715
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 77
Out of curiosity, what do most people realistically expect regarding the bigger monetary aspects such as rates, retirement contributions, and profit sharing? Not including the always swing at the first pitch or the no to everything crowd, but the majority of line pilots. Do you expect parity with current legacy contracts, legacy plus a little, legacy minus a little...?
JetBlue MRA rates and step grid plus 5% year one of contract
Additional 3% per year rate increases to account for being end of cycle to come to modern rates/ new contracts that are going to be negotiated while we’re locked in.
along with MRA bumps going forward.
18% 401k DC along with the new cash balance program other carriers have.
profit sharing in line with the industry.
we fly more pax with greater hurdles.
increased language to protect us from mergers/ acquisitions.
Birth of a child/adoption pay for 6 weeks paid like other major airlines have added in their new contracts.
parking pass covered for picked up by the pilot outside of normal line/ domicile.
there are no concessions and no favors this side of the company.
The planes don’t move unless we are paid in line with our peers and being end of cycle means we start negotiating for what will be the new cycle rates. We are no longer frontier’s cost saving advantage. We will be paid for the professionalism they demand with a higher workload than our pilot peers.
09-20-2024, 06:21 PM
#716
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 102
JetBlue MRA rates and step grid plus 5% year one of contract
Additional 3% per year rate increases to account for being end of cycle to come to modern rates/ new contracts that are going to be negotiated while we’re locked in.
along with MRA bumps going forward.
18% 401k DC along with the new cash balance program other carriers have.
profit sharing in line with the industry.
we fly more pax with greater hurdles.
increased language to protect us from mergers/ acquisitions.
Birth of a child/adoption pay for 6 weeks paid like other major airlines have added in their new contracts.
parking pass covered for picked up by the pilot outside of normal line/ domicile.
there are no concessions and no favors this side of the company.
The planes don’t move unless we are paid in line with our peers and being end of cycle means we start negotiating for what will be the new cycle rates. We are no longer frontier’s cost saving advantage. We will be paid for the professionalism they demand with a higher workload than our pilot peers.
Additional 3% per year rate increases to account for being end of cycle to come to modern rates/ new contracts that are going to be negotiated while we’re locked in.
along with MRA bumps going forward.
18% 401k DC along with the new cash balance program other carriers have.
profit sharing in line with the industry.
we fly more pax with greater hurdles.
increased language to protect us from mergers/ acquisitions.
Birth of a child/adoption pay for 6 weeks paid like other major airlines have added in their new contracts.
parking pass covered for picked up by the pilot outside of normal line/ domicile.
there are no concessions and no favors this side of the company.
The planes don’t move unless we are paid in line with our peers and being end of cycle means we start negotiating for what will be the new cycle rates. We are no longer frontier’s cost saving advantage. We will be paid for the professionalism they demand with a higher workload than our pilot peers.
09-20-2024, 07:02 PM
#717
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,339
How do you define peers? Is it as simple as anyone flying the same type aircraft? Are differences in business models and revenue streams considered? Can pilots at a ULCC expect a contract that is every bit as expensive as a legacy despite vast differences in revenue levels? Not trying to poke the bear, but management will easily argue that their ULCC revenue cant support a contract that a legacy could.
09-20-2024, 07:23 PM
#718
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 77
How do you define peers? Is it as simple as anyone flying the same type aircraft? Are differences in business models and revenue streams considered? Can pilots at a LCC expect a contract that is every bit as expensive as a legacy despite vast differences in revenue levels? Not trying to poke the bear, but management will easily argue that their LCC revenue cant support a contract that a legacy could.
The union already answered this question with our contract comparison document. Go check it out if you’re unfamiliar with your peer group,
09-21-2024, 12:22 AM
#719
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2024
Posts: 2
How do you define peers? Is it as simple as anyone flying the same type aircraft? Are differences in business models and revenue streams considered? Can pilots at a ULCC expect a contract that is every bit as expensive as a legacy despite vast differences in revenue levels? Not trying to poke the bear, but management will easily argue that their ULCC revenue cant support a contract that a legacy could.
09-21-2024, 05:21 AM
#720
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 195
If management argues that a ULCC model can't support an industry standard airline pilot contract, then the ULCC model is the wrong model to continue to support. This is especially the case when the stock loses 76.87 percent of its value since going public. Vote of no confidence.
Delta’s latest quarter RASM was about 22 cents. F9’s was about 9 cents. That means each seat F9 moves makes only about 41% as much of a Delta seat. Less than half.
Everyone wants the best possible contract for F9 pilots. Best. Possible. Because the most lucrative flying career, in the long run, is a stable one.
Good luck.
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