How long for a contract?
08-03-2024, 06:25 PM
#601
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 98
We’re talking about pilot pay. The economics of CEO comp have nothing to do with this discussion. It’s a different market with different forces at work and I’m not going to make this thread any more unserious than it’s already become by humoring that point.
We all want to maximize our comp. And you know that carping about “the same pay rate as everyone else in the industry” is a meaningless tagline because you’re ignoring the Airbus pilots who make less than us. You’re cherry picking DAL rates without acknowledging that their RASM is something like almost twice ours. And you’re ignoring the fact that even Spirit rates are arguably unsupportable given the available evidence.
We’ve got to get smarter than this about making our case.
We all want to maximize our comp. And you know that carping about “the same pay rate as everyone else in the industry” is a meaningless tagline because you’re ignoring the Airbus pilots who make less than us. You’re cherry picking DAL rates without acknowledging that their RASM is something like almost twice ours. And you’re ignoring the fact that even Spirit rates are arguably unsupportable given the available evidence.
We’ve got to get smarter than this about making our case.
08-03-2024, 08:38 PM
#602
Almost there
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,283
It's not our problem if the company isn't making enough money to pay us industry standard. If they can't afford it they can change their model or go bankrupt and let us be bought by a bigger fish. They don't get an Airbus pilot discount because their revenue is less.
Read Hard Landing if you haven’t.
https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Landing-Contest-Profits-Airlines/dp/0812928350
There are actually quite a few similarities happening now with past history. It’s a good read for the aviation enthusiast.
08-03-2024, 10:37 PM
#603
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 84
It's not our problem if the company isn't making enough money to pay us industry standard. If they can't afford it they can change their model or go bankrupt and let us be bought by a bigger fish. They don't get an Airbus pilot discount because their revenue is less.
amen 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
08-04-2024, 06:23 AM
#604
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 193
It's not our problem if the company isn't making enough money to pay us industry standard. If they can't afford it they can change their model or go bankrupt and let us be bought by a bigger fish. They don't get an Airbus pilot discount because their revenue is less.
And Stayontarget is right. It’s absolutely our problem if the company takes on obligations it can’t afford. See, for example, Spirit and the legions of other carriers that have preceded it into the dustbin of history.
You can decide to ignore all that but the people doing the actual negotiating can’t and won’t. There’s no way the union is going into negotiations spouting unsupported nonsense like “no discount Airbus pilots” and “it’s not our problem you won’t give us what we want.” These are serious discussions between serious people and unsupportable taglines don’t move the ball.
08-04-2024, 06:41 AM
#605
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 593
Yes they do and they get more than they need. That’s why there are so many CJOs waiting on class dates. You cant just make stuff up like that.
And Stayontarget is right. It’s absolutely our problem if the company takes on obligations it can’t afford. See, for example, Spirit and the legions of other carriers that have preceded it into the dustbin of history.
You can decide to ignore all that but the people doing the actual negotiating can’t and won’t. There’s no way the union is going into negotiations spouting unsupported nonsense like “no discount Airbus pilots” and “it’s not our problem you won’t give us what we want.” These are serious discussions between serious people and unsupportable taglines don’t move the ball.
And Stayontarget is right. It’s absolutely our problem if the company takes on obligations it can’t afford. See, for example, Spirit and the legions of other carriers that have preceded it into the dustbin of history.
You can decide to ignore all that but the people doing the actual negotiating can’t and won’t. There’s no way the union is going into negotiations spouting unsupported nonsense like “no discount Airbus pilots” and “it’s not our problem you won’t give us what we want.” These are serious discussions between serious people and unsupportable taglines don’t move the ball.
Excellent points.
We will not get anything from an unsuccessful airline.
08-04-2024, 10:28 AM
#606
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 427
The real question is- if you truly believe we aren't on par with legacy pilots, why are you still here? And don't say it's because it's because you have too much time on property.
If we aren't going to have TOTAL compensation (all areas of the contract) of our legacy counterparts, then the math is probably more favorable to leave. Between the immediate upgrades, the retirements, the projected growth plans, GS, open time, base availability, commuting, LCR, etc. financially I'd probably make more sense to go.
It's like the people who say this company/model isn't going to last. Why are you still here? If we're going out of business you should've left two years ago.
If we aren't going to have TOTAL compensation (all areas of the contract) of our legacy counterparts, then the math is probably more favorable to leave. Between the immediate upgrades, the retirements, the projected growth plans, GS, open time, base availability, commuting, LCR, etc. financially I'd probably make more sense to go.
It's like the people who say this company/model isn't going to last. Why are you still here? If we're going out of business you should've left two years ago.
08-04-2024, 01:13 PM
#607
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,909
The real question is- if you truly believe we aren't on par with legacy pilots, why are you still here? And don't say it's because it's because you have too much time on property.
If we aren't going to have TOTAL compensation (all areas of the contract) of our legacy counterparts, then the math is probably more favorable to leave. Between the immediate upgrades, the retirements, the projected growth plans, GS, open time, base availability, commuting, LCR, etc. financially I'd probably make more sense to go.
It's like the people who say this company/model isn't going to last. Why are you still here? If we're going out of business you should've left two years ago.
If we aren't going to have TOTAL compensation (all areas of the contract) of our legacy counterparts, then the math is probably more favorable to leave. Between the immediate upgrades, the retirements, the projected growth plans, GS, open time, base availability, commuting, LCR, etc. financially I'd probably make more sense to go.
It's like the people who say this company/model isn't going to last. Why are you still here? If we're going out of business you should've left two years ago.
08-04-2024, 02:26 PM
#610
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 311
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