buzzer

You could write a list of things that help/hinder getting a contract done or making it better. I'm certain that picking up extra time is not in the help column. The culture would need to change among the pilot group that doing certain things is an act against your colleagues. No you will never get 100% participation (doesn't take that much) but you must ask yourself what side you are on. A good contract or an earlier one won't happen by itself. Sometimes leverage happens naturally, but it doesn't appear to be the case here.

F9 Driver

What did they not get that you think an arbitrator would have awarded per 6.D.6.c. ?

BagMan

Not sure if the arbitrator would award it ,but how about I should not have to pay to see my schedual outside of the airport. It is not the money it is the principal. That is the problem I have with the NC. Yeah it dosen't cost much ,but we all see where allowing the cost shifting onto the pilot group has got us. Just like the Lack of action on the bots. Don't think they exist? then why are people picking up trips for less than 5hr and posting them to the trade board, Why does it take FLICA over 2 hrs to send an alert.

How about a bigger question. Who wins if four Captians get 50% of the premium time?
What about the other hunderd or so who pick up the rest? many also using bots

I see a lot of people saying telling others not to pick up straght time. I guess the rest of us are just supposed to fall on our swords so the select few can make 500+ a year.

You want more Premium time come up with a new system to spred the time around and give people an incentive not to pick up straght pay.

Of course we had a system like that before the last contract ,but we just had to give it up because the company really had us over a barrel with there complete inability to find pilots. Don't worry though The exact people are Negotiating the new contract now. I am sure it will be great. They have so much leverage they can just let these things go for nothing.

F9 Driver

Aside from correctly stating you don't know what an arbitrator would give, and an entertaining unresponsive thread drift about FLICA, BOTs, and missing MOT, you're wrong.

Only one of the three on the NC was involved in the prior CBA negotiations, and the NC works at the direction of almost entirely new MEC/LEC members. But, don't let facts get in the way of sharing your feels.

HSCompressor

Well usually you have to have excess DOT before you start seeing excess POT. It's not a hard correlation to make. But, yes fix the distribution of POT.

BagMan

Your right. I should be more direct about my feelings.

I feel like expecting an Industry Standard contract to come out of this MEC and NC is like expecting Birthday Cake to fall out of a goats ass.
I feel like The new MEC is no diffrent than the last MEC
I am tired of hearing how this is going to take four years. mostly because of the poor track record or lack on any achievments of the MEC/NC save the fact that our Union saved 41 pilots from being fired for calling in sick in the middle of a pandemic. The MEC was so proud they sent out little pins in commeration of there victory. or the way selflessly spent our union dues on Basic safety equipment (vests) insted of sending out a single paragragh memo stating "you are not allowed on the ramp in ATL without a Safety vest. If one is not made avalable then call a mechanic to do the walk around."

I am not running for MEC or the NC, but this is a much larger company then it used to be. There are plenty of competent hard working people who want to do these jobs. Anyone who will wait four years for a contract will wait 8- 10 years. At that point your not negotiating your just waiting for diffrent conditions. it's like saying "It's going to take me a week to negoitiate buying this car" it does not take a week ,It dosen't take eight hours. It should be done in 3 hours.

Like wise our Contract it should be done in six months possaibly a year. Our problem No leverage. Why? because anything and everything that may be considered leverage is ****ed away almost immediately.

We can't negotiate because we don't have anything thay want.

Go back to that same car dealer and try to buy a $50,000 car with $35,000. It's going to take for ever because they are not going to sell it to you.

In our case that is what is happening except our guys are hoping they can say "we are not making any progress" leave the room and go on strike. How are the Arbitors going to feel about that? Likely the same way they did last time.

What gets me the most worked up is the fact that you consider this a serious discussion, Like serious discussion's happen on anonymous board. As if I derailed what was going to be the critical piece of information that was going to force their hand in the negotiations. Like someone was going to post naked pics of bb or bl ,but seeing my post gave them cold feet.

You want to know when we are going to get a Industry Standard Contract? Well that depends on what your definiton of Industry Standard is ,Just like you definition of what Birthday Cake is.

It does not have to be that way, but look at the past preformance of out MEC and NC. The MEC has as much trouble solving basic problems as managment ,and that bar is LOW. Plot forward what the NC's progress has been. Perhaps you see something diffrent , but I see them get rolled at every turn SUJ was considers a huge victory just due to the fact we diden't get rolled. We did lose leverage though, Now what wait until the ATP cadets dry up?

I am inclined to wait new MEC and all. That said if the ball does not start rolling soon we may need to follow what our peers have done and elect a new MEC

dracir1

Bag, I feel ya. We all do. You're talking about utopia. You're discussing this as if we actually work for a company that cares about us, about putting out a great product or about anything besides cheapness. Notice, I didn't say making money - they want that of course but the method matters to them. They want to do it as cheaply (don't confuse that with efficiently) as possible.

NO labor force has the amount of leverage you mention. Not Teamsters in the automobile industry, not Starbucks employees, nobody. The RLA is written significantly in management's favor. They know this. Wishing things were different or that the union was more capable somehow is gonna just be a lesson in frustration management.

The ONLY recourse you, I and the rest of the pilot body has is to trust the NC we have in place. After last negotiation - I don't. But, none of us have much choice. They will eventually return a product that most will be unhappy with. The question is - how unhappy. If enough people vote no, then they go back and get more. The tradeoff is that it takes longer. And retro is never 100% (if you REALLY wanna argue something, RETRO percentage make the most sense as that provides the greatest leverage to get one done sooner than later).

If 50.1% vote yes (for whatever reason), then we'll have our new contract.

It is what it is. The union cannot mandate solidarity. They can't organize a drive to be more in unison. And, they can't openly defy "good faith" negotiating until the time/conditions are correct to do so.

buzzer

Your union cannot do everything for you. Grassrooits.

spooldup

Delta's Union has been putting billboard ads outside company HQ along the highway... Kind of wish we did something of the sort. Even after they got their contract, its now "Delta Management gave us a contract, now its time to honor it"

JoeFever1

Just wasting money. Franke nor Barry care. Only way to a career contract is through a hard stance by the pilot group and jumping through every hoop in the rla.