Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker

So just plan on year 1 at first year fo pay then go from there on captain pay year 2 for the payrate math? Is that a good way to help out res captain with the math? He can figure out QOL himself.

Originally Posted by TOGALOCK

Not being snarky, but how exactly should we respond? I’m not going to put together an excel spreadsheet to do his homework for him. I can give him the basic facts and he can make the decision himself from there. A lot of the decision is very personal.

I can say from personal experience, 8 months on property and I’ve had my kids’ birthdays off, Halloween off, Thanksgiving off, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day off, as well as many many weekends off. Those were actually awarded days off, not unused reserve days I’m counting as “off”. I was 50% in my base as captain at frontier and STILL got unstacked into my last Xmas there on reserve. I also have an ORD captain award already awarded and just waiting to get off probation. I’ll be bidding at around 87% when I finally get over due to the junior floodgates opening recently and so many people below me bidding in. I’m sure I’ll slide backwards a bit by other more senior people coming in as well. But 1 year on property, living in base, and maybe bidding a little over 90%, while making 300+ in the left seat, I’ll take it.

People seem very resistant and defensive to hearing that life is actually better on the other side. I still have many friends who are still at F9. Everyone has their own reasons to stay and I don’t blame any of them one bit. I genuinely don’t want to become “that” legacy guy who just brags about his move. I simply state the facts. Unfortunately, there isn’t a lot of bad things to say. I miss my time at Frontier and look back on it with a smile on my face. But if people here ask about life after Frontier, I will gladly share. I’ve spend many hours talking with others through PM about the pros and cons of leaving. For me, it was the best decision that this Frontier fanboy ever made.

ReserveCa, however, is difficult to respond to seriously. He has nearly a 100% complaint rate for every post he’s ever made. I’m not going to take a great deal of time entertaining someone who is likely just going to respond with a further complaint.. and look… I was right.

Originally Posted by TOGALOCK

Yes. That’s basically what I was trying to give him, but people didn’t seem to find that adequate.

Hourly rate break even for a 12 year captain at F9 ($270/hr) will be 3rd year widebody FO ($270/hr + $5/hr international override), or 2nd year narrowbody captain ($345/hr).

Min days off on reserve are 12, 13, or 14 depending on the month with min 18 hour callout which is supposed to start in August. Lots of other little financial things on reserve: 1 hour of pay above guarantee for an unused short call conversion (great if you live in base and pick them up), 3 hours of pay above guarantee for a field standby if you get used or not, 2 hours of pay above guarantee for aggressive bidding a trip that start before 10am on your first day on. Then there’s long duty day pay (1:1 for duty days over ten hours), long sit pay. Both of which are not exclusive to reserve. Those are just some of the many “add pay” provisions we have.

Also, pilots taking the first time upgrade get 1 year positive space commuting.

Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker

I believe a provision that kicks in in august that lowers that 500 to 350 and gets rid of the off probation requirement? Or makes it 350 in an ac operated by UAL?

Originally Posted by Planedrive

BL was hired to make Frontier a regional. The only reason F9 got a contract in 2018 was because we had no applications on file. Brad has solved that problem with his cadet, R-ATP, college, and helicopter programs. There is absolutely no reason for this management group to come to the table this time around. They have an endless supply of first officers ready to come here.

Look at our union members running for the door. They see the writing on the wall, there is no hope for a new contract. The only reason to stay here is if you have a burning desire to live in Cincinnati or Cleveland. UAL, AAL, and DAL will hire over 5000 pilots over the next 12 months. Do you want to be at the front or back of that wave. Yesterday was the best day to submit your app, today is the next best day.

Originally Posted by TOGALOCK

Kind of. And this is where things begin to get a bit convoluted. There are two contractual sections for upgrade. The standard: (8-I-1(a)) 500 hours UAL time and off standard probation.

Then there are the new reduced minimums that you mention: (9-K-1) 350 hours in type as an FO, no failed checkrides or short cycle during initial FO training, 100 hours of mandatory Captian IOE.

Currently all new hires and probationary pilots bidding captain are training under 8-I-1(a). So they still all fly as an FO until hitting 500 hours UAL time and off probation (~1 year give or take a few days for most people).

9-K-1 minimums do not apply yet. The new reserve rules have to be activated before the company can exercise 9-K-1. Also, it’s a misunderstanding that 9-K-1 will simply become active after the new reserve rules go into effect (targeted for August). However, after that happens, the company simply has the *ability* to train captains under 9-K-1. It’s unclear if the company is going to go that route or not yet.

Originally Posted by Aero1900

A few posts back someone copy and pasted something about Sun Country. I don't think that was accurate. I think they recently got a halfway decent contract.l? I'll try to find it in a bit.

For everyone who's suprised and or disappointed about the progress on our contract, let's keep a couple things in mind: our last contract took 3 years and we had nearly completely run out of applicants.

United and Southwests new contracts took about 4 years to hash out. And united had to shoot down an early, garbage agreement. It didn't make it to a vote, but the time to work these out can be substantial. I expect ours to be in the 3 year range.

The company is going to stall, delay and jam up every single step in this process. It will more than test your patience, trust me. Prepare for pain. Just don't take your frustration out on others. Don't make your work days suck because your frustrated with the company. And please for the love of God, don't be mad at the union. Direct your anger the right way. We have to support the union.