Andy

LOL! Not cheap, especially when you can get pilots for free. And what's the loan amounts on those Airbii?

But seriously, do you really think that Franke would sell? On top of that, there's no way that such a merger would get past DOT.

Nice fantasy post.

Yabadaba

Exactly. I roll my eyes when people say "United is gonna buy us cause they want our orders". F9 doesn't have any orders. Indigo does and they will make the same money getting them delivered to another airline.

dracir1

ok, I’m not serious about the United (or any other purchase). But let’s not act like that has never happened. Southwest bought AirTran for the people and sold the planes. America West bought UsAir (that eventually became American). Airlines merge, people. It happens. And let’s not forget we are BARELY an airline. There are regionals that are our size. We could be absorbed by any of the Big 4 and it be. A blip on their hiring radar. And United is trying to build an empire - something about 20,000 pilots. Whether that’s actually obtainable or not doesn’t matter as much as the will of some idiot CEO who has the backing and courage to make moves.

I just don’t get this sense of grandeur we seem to have. We suck at running a business. We are stagnant at best in a time where growth is extremely important. We don’t turn the greatest amount of profit. And last but certainly not least, our greatest asset is a pilot and FA group that have shown they will work for less, have an excellent safety record and are all trained to work on what has become the most popular aircraft in the world. We aren’t the hot cheerleader who’s rich, smart and drives a baby Benz convertible. We are the older MILF who used to be hot but wants so much to be relevant again. We’re attractive to only those who see an opportunity to use and abuse.

Why wouldn’t United, or anyone else, make a bid? Pilots are free to them now but they don’t get all of them.

The only thing that prevents that is that Indigo will be sure that any sale will be costly.

Aero1900

Speak for yourself!

AntiCompanyMan

Again I ask, what does Frontier offer that United or anyone else NEEDS?

United has 700 aircraft deliveries between now and 2032. It doesn't need the aircraft or the orders.

United has 16.5 thousand pilots with plans to hire many more, but a gain of 2000 or so pilots via a merger isn't really worth that. The United-Continental merger is still within memory at United, and that was an ugly process. The company culture has mostly healed from that time, so why would United pursue an expensive merger with a messy SLI that will make everyone unhappy for 2-4 years minimum? All that for a mere 2000 pilots? I don't buy it. Not to mention the many senior captains at Frontier who strongly dislike United and who may decide to retire early. Or the base closures that would follow such a merger, upending life for the vast majority of pilots who don't live in Denver, Vegas, or Orlando. So your 2000 is slowly whittled away by these externalities.

Competitors' regionals, ACMIs, 135, foreign carriers, Southwest, Spirit, Allegiant, Frontier etc. all provide a healthy pipeline of pilots for United, without an expensive and legally arduous merger process.

As much as you hope, no one is coming to save you from F9 management.

Learjet driver

For those of you thinking of making the move to United, we just had a bid close that had 32 Airbus Capt’s where the junior pilot was 15,000 on the seniority list. 737 Capt’s in DEN had 98 awards and 11 unfilled. The bottom Capt in DEN 16,696. They are currently in Indoc training as a new hire. United is hiring 2000+ pilots a year. Believe it or not 28,000 pilots by the end of the decade. Currently we have 450 flights a day out of DEN and growing that to 750. We just had a 20 plus year Frontier Capt come to United. He probably is one of the new hires that already has a Capt bid. You would be crazy to stay at Frontier. By the way UAL management is saying we are hiring 1% of Frontier’s seniority list every month.

CrayonEater

personally, I think that’s the reason it won’t happen — Indigo would make a sale too costly. The big 3 are already luring the pilots away & have the desired planes already on order or in operation.

ToddChavez

Yeah, but most of us have been around long enough to know this industry is a giant wave. There is an economic recession coming, and then what?

It is easy to say guys are crazy for not going, and that may be true if you have less than 5-7 years at F9, but for those of us with more seniority than that, it is not that easy. We have to weigh the risks of the music stopping and what a furlough could look like for us.

Learjet driver

I listened to SK answer a question about the threat of a recession and if he was worried about it. He said he wasn’t worried because our bookings haven’t slowed, we have 21 Billion in the bank and our margins are some of the strongest in the industry. His plan, if there is a recession, is to go in and take market share away from those airlines who do pull back. Just like SouthWest has done for decades. The aircraft orders are coming regardless of a recession. The only adjustment they could make is to park our oldest Airbuses. They can’t park the 757’s or 767’s because there is nothing to replace them. We didn’t park any airframes during COVID when everyone else did. He still brags about that. When he summed it up, he isn't worried.

Learjet driver

I fully understand your point of staying put and the risk involved with starting over. I have been here 25 years and seen (been part of) furloughs, bankruptcies and mergers. I have also never seen Captains awards in new hire Indoc.