News thread
03-15-2024, 07:26 PM
#451
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 98
Bro I am with you. If we (that's the collective WE) wanna make that stand, I'm all for it. I have my strike savings built up.
But there's a REASON no pilot union has ever received full retro. Do some research. Ask around. Go to other forums besides the Frontier page and snoop.
If you wanna lead the charge on that one, I'll gladly follow. I respectfully request you join my charge on the pay rate scale effort.
But there's a REASON no pilot union has ever received full retro. Do some research. Ask around. Go to other forums besides the Frontier page and snoop.
If you wanna lead the charge on that one, I'll gladly follow. I respectfully request you join my charge on the pay rate scale effort.
03-15-2024, 08:29 PM
#452
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
Just read the negotiation update. Pardon my ignorance but is it normal for the mediator to schedule these sessions 6 weeks apart? Given theres roughly 30 sections, if we TA 2 sections per session (which we aren't even doing now) that puts us at 90 weeks, or nearly 2 years to negotiate a full TA. I really hope the union is, and remains, resolute in demanding 100% full retro. Guess we'll see how long this takes...
a large portion of those 30 sections will be agreed upon very quickly. there’s only a half dozen or so that are time consuming
03-15-2024, 08:36 PM
#453
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,861
Love to see it. I'll be making 60-80k less than my peers for the next 2-3 years.
As someone with a wife, looking for a first house, and eventually considering kids in the next couple years, this isn't feeling too hot.
I cannot plan on my pay being on par with my peers.
I cannot plan on staying in domicile because of the displacements and possible closures.
I cannot plan on buying a house because of displacements.
How am I supposed to plan anything with my life around something like this? I know BB and friends don't care because no matter what, they will always have their golden parachutes and income. I feel bad for anyone who just bought a house somewhere and has a pregnant wife or young kids, got displaced, now has to commute, and possibly commutes to SJU on top of that, while still making less pay than everyone else as a nice kick while they are down.
As someone with a wife, looking for a first house, and eventually considering kids in the next couple years, this isn't feeling too hot.
I cannot plan on my pay being on par with my peers.
I cannot plan on staying in domicile because of the displacements and possible closures.
I cannot plan on buying a house because of displacements.
How am I supposed to plan anything with my life around something like this? I know BB and friends don't care because no matter what, they will always have their golden parachutes and income. I feel bad for anyone who just bought a house somewhere and has a pregnant wife or young kids, got displaced, now has to commute, and possibly commutes to SJU on top of that, while still making less pay than everyone else as a nice kick while they are down.
03-15-2024, 10:35 PM
#454
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 111
Love to see it. I'll be making 60-80k less than my peers for the next 2-3 years.
As someone with a wife, looking for a first house, and eventually considering kids in the next couple years, this isn't feeling too hot.
I cannot plan on my pay being on par with my peers.
I cannot plan on staying in domicile because of the displacements and possible closures.
I cannot plan on buying a house because of displacements.
How am I supposed to plan anything with my life around something like this? I know BB and friends don't care because no matter what, they will always have their golden parachutes and income. I feel bad for anyone who just bought a house somewhere and has a pregnant wife or young kids, got displaced, now has to commute, and possibly commutes to SJU on top of that, while still making less pay than everyone else as a nice kick while they are down.
As someone with a wife, looking for a first house, and eventually considering kids in the next couple years, this isn't feeling too hot.
I cannot plan on my pay being on par with my peers.
I cannot plan on staying in domicile because of the displacements and possible closures.
I cannot plan on buying a house because of displacements.
How am I supposed to plan anything with my life around something like this? I know BB and friends don't care because no matter what, they will always have their golden parachutes and income. I feel bad for anyone who just bought a house somewhere and has a pregnant wife or young kids, got displaced, now has to commute, and possibly commutes to SJU on top of that, while still making less pay than everyone else as a nice kick while they are down.
03-16-2024, 02:08 AM
#455
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,425
SW upped the ante I believe w/ their new contract but I won't accept less than the industry standard. That cause is one we should all have.
03-16-2024, 06:13 AM
#456
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 98
Simple really. There is a standard now (thanks to the Big 3). The 320neo and 321neo have pay scales that all are using. It's basically the same thing.
SW upped the ante I believe w/ their new contract but I won't accept less than the industry standard. That cause is one we should all have.
SW upped the ante I believe w/ their new contract but I won't accept less than the industry standard. That cause is one we should all have.
03-16-2024, 06:33 AM
#457
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 677
At this point that's all but guaranteed unfortunately. Not seeing anything quicker than 3 years.
03-16-2024, 06:45 AM
#458
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 98
I could envision something quicker if we aren't able to retain pilots with all the deliveries we're getting. In 2023 we hired roughly 500 pilots but our seniority list only grew by about 100. Between now and the end of 2025 we're getting something on the order of 60 planes. If we need 15 pilots per aircraft then we'll need to grow our seniority list by 900 by the end of 25' which won't happen unless we stem attrition. That might be easier with the legacies slowing hiring, but that appears to be temporary due to Boeing problems. You could be right though. 3 years could be a real possibility, I'm just a perpetual optimist.
03-16-2024, 06:49 AM
#459
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,476
We have a lot of new to the airlines and frankly new to adulthood in our ranks now. And that's just fine but there's going to need to be some significant education to help everyone understand how this is going to go. And what's realistic or not. (Full retro? dream on, dreamers)
The process in front of us is long and painful. Period. (Industry average is 4 years)
The process that we have to work though is governed by the Railway Labor Act. We are strictly bound by the law, and just to give you a hint of how it works, the law was designed to keep the trains chugging and the workers working. "It's the economy, stupid"
The trains used to be absolutely critical to the economy and the Gov't didn't want train workers going on strike. It's that simple. Like it or not ( you definitely don't) we are bound to a process laid out in that act.
03-16-2024, 11:23 AM
#460
Slave
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: Hot tub
Posts: 1,389
I'm all for being the first kids on the block to receive full retro. But, how many others feel this way? How many "no" votes will it take? A better question is how long?
If you're a senior CA w/ 5 (or maybe even more) years left, and all you hear from the NC is the company will never pay full retro, do you really want to risk never getting a pay raise AT ALL before retiring? As negotiations drag out, how many junior guys are going to stay?
You may be willing to wait 6 to 9 years to get full retro (or maybe even 90%) but keep in mind, this is largely the SAME pilot group that voted in the sh!tty pay scale (and less than 100% retro) we got in the last contract...
If you're a senior CA w/ 5 (or maybe even more) years left, and all you hear from the NC is the company will never pay full retro, do you really want to risk never getting a pay raise AT ALL before retiring? As negotiations drag out, how many junior guys are going to stay?
You may be willing to wait 6 to 9 years to get full retro (or maybe even 90%) but keep in mind, this is largely the SAME pilot group that voted in the sh!tty pay scale (and less than 100% retro) we got in the last contract...
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