fcoolaiddrinker

It would be more accurate to say costs are agreed upon first. Last round that took 6ish months. It shouldn’t take as long this time due to the fact there’s now more standard alpa language than last time. Alpa can draw from historical data and has way more of that data. That’s what happened at f9 last negotiation cycle. The software cost. That would take 1 day to agree upon.

fcoolaiddrinker

I don’t know who your reps are but that last sentence is not entirely accurate. When a cost is agreed upon that doesn’t mean it’s codified into the contract. Sec are ta and as that happens those agreed upon values of that sec are totaled. As that happens negotiators can decide whether or not existing agreed upon cost items left are worth taing the next sec. Therefore when it comes to ta that language the company will not argue the cost at that point in time.

dracir1

Bro, what you are referring to IS the negotiation process.

The cost of LTD is negotiated. It’s a back and forth. It’s a we ask for X and the company agrees or counters with X - some amount. And the back and forth continues.

And, I’m sure you realize that the TERMS of each area dictate the costs. Some costs are easier to calculate- like our pay rate or medical /dental company share or LTD. But other areas, not so much. If Premium were to be agreed upon that it starts at 200% (vs the 150 it is now), then that increased COST can be argued as to how much it totals from either side. Since the company controls the amount of (or lack of) premium offerings, that cost is highly debatable (and is where historical data comes in). As are several other areas of the contract. How much is a change to the reserve system? Well, it depends on the change. Which is the entire negotiation.

The costs are not agreed to PRIOR to negotiation, they ARE the negotiation.

Smh

fcoolaiddrinker

Any existing language costs that are not going to change are essentially already agreed upon. I’m pretty much done explaining the process as it unfolded last time. I was involved to some extent and have negotiated higher level grievances with MZ, JP, JN. Negotiated loa’s. Removed existing loa’s. Testified at arbitrations. That was after briefing Alpa attorneys over several months as to past practice, arbitrations, language intent, and settlement agreements when they first arrived on property. It won’t be hard to figure out who I am now so I’m out for a while.

In the end I want premium fixed and realize it’s cheap to do that. You don’t seem to care much about it and that’s fine. We disagree.

dracir1

Great resume. I don’t know who you are and frankly I don’t care. I’m sure the feeling is mutual.

Despite your impressive monologue, none of what you mentioned refuted what I mentioned. Parts of the contract that dont cost money or that aren’t going to change don’t NEED to be heavily debated. That wasn’t the matter being discussed.

And whether a “better” or different premium system costs a lot would depend on the change - how could it not? Whether it’s programming or whatever, it’s part of FLICA and not something neither of us can truly ensure what the bargaining capital will be from the company’s perspective (unless you work for the company which I assume you don’t).

If you want if fixed, great. You’re a fellow pilot so I hope we fix it to your liking - as long as I and the rest of us don’t take a hit elsewhere. Premium is about 1% of the scheduling system and is completely controlled by the company in terms of when and where it’s used, I just don’t understand the attention some seem to give it.

TBH, if neither of us is in the room negotiating, then neither of us will know (other than what we’re told by others) what the cost was, if any. You probably have better access than I given your history, and you may be right about it not costing much. In the end, we’re on the same side.

And I will gladly seek and fly premium if the improvement is made in such a way that I ca. obtain it. But I’m not holding my breath…

ReserveCA

start with an EVER EXPANDING MUCH LARGER PIE 😎

ReserveCA

Definite deal breaker

5:15 min CALENDAR day..
NO CDO
NO SPLIT DUTY
reserve 15 days off 31 day month
reserve 14 days off 30 day month

hercretired

Frontier business model indeed is superb, planes are full, cash is abundant.

with that stated- BB, BL, recruiting, has all said variations of the below:

"We offer a chance to be home every night" = we fly mostly 1 and 2 day trips

"crews want more days off" = you will fly more legs each day and earn your pay. Southwest-ish / regional-ish

"more bases means more opportunities for those who live in those cities" = see 1, 2 day comment above. we are slashing overnight costs, shifting crash pad and hotel burden to the pilot, not the company

"captains here are making huge money" = captains at all major 121's are making huge money. No longer the weight it previously carried

"upgrade here is under 4 years" = upgrade everywhere is under 4 years. No longer the weight it carried

"we are cash rich and financially sound" = we indeed have cash but we don't spend sh1t on sh1t. we outsource everything, and contracting Team-A in LAS does not talk to, communicate with, etc Team-B (another company) in MCO. Meanwhile, companies with debt and lesser financial status are re-vamping airport lounges, installing Wi-Fi, installing new seating in their fleet, etc. Yes, all of this costs money.

Spend money to make money = not a concept they support.

Does not go into debt for the right reasons. Anybody get a loan to get a college degree? To get a bigger house in that safe suburb, because twins are on the way? Frontier does not believe in debt. Debt has been used in corporate America to open factories, expand, create jobs, buy more 18-wheelers to then say yes to customer requests, etc. Frontier does not use debt. Frontier is Dave Ramsey Airlines.

"we are well situated for a recession" = we are in a recession NOW and every airline flight in America is full. Work from home means "the weekend" is no longer when people travel. Everyone is traveling, all week long.

The above is not good, it is not bad. It simply is what it is.

the contract talks will be challenging, in my opinion

VASBYT

Nicely said, sadly very right.

AlternateLaw

I could be wrong about this. But I hear at SW a three day min guarantee is like 18/19 hrs. Let’s aim higher.