sulkair

.....Check

Winston

Two things:

- if you only ever aim to achieve "industry standard" (according to your definition), you're never going to improve the industry, you're just playing catch-up based on the heavy lifting of others.

- if all the industry leaders negotiated in this manner, they'd only bring the average compensation down. How does this concept of pattern bargaining benefit anyone?

CantStayAway

While your points are valid, I think they neglect to consider the most important variable in this whole thing... the NMB. If we didn't have to wait for their approval to withhold our services, then industry leading should be the target. The problem is that if ALPA draws a "line in the sand" and says industry leading or else, negotiations will drag on and on.

Of course they may still regardless of how reasonable the union is. That said, I believe the thinking in going for industry standard is that the request is reasonable and therefore should allow for a quicker path to release for self help if the company refuses to negotiate in good faith. Time will tell how that strategy works.

I wouldn't be surprised if the longer this drags on, the higher ALPA's ask becomes.

DrJekyll MrHyde

So you're saying that pulling ourselves from the (way way) bottom is not going to help other airlines bargain for more money in the future? Taking ourselves from the bottom to the middle of the new contract average is not heavy lifting?

MisterF9Pilot

It has been and will continue to be heavy lifting to get a contract that is appropriate for North American Airbus pilots from the Indigo bozos.

We'll have to push for the finish line, which is a cooling off period, and see how much leverage we have when we get there. It should be plenty enough to get the heavy lifting done.

DrJekyll MrHyde

Bump.......

DrJekyll MrHyde

Another bump..

If you can’t read between the lines our union is basically screaming “DO NOT COME HERE!!”

I understand some people have unique situations, but in general, coming to work at Frontier is a terrible idea. You’re really gambling big on a couple years of your life by signing that training contract. If you’re qualified to come to F9 you’re highly likely to be picked up at a Legacy in the next couple years. There will likely be growth here, but Frontier will remain a sh!t company. Contract talks have completely stalled, we have been playing the wait and see game for a very long time now. If you come here and hold your breath, you’ll turn blue like the rest of us. Strive for better, stay away. I’m a Captain, and I’m trying to leave. I would be in the top 15% in 7 years (all things equal) if I stayed, but I’m trying to leave. I have an easy commute and I like the Airbus, but I’m trying to leave. I dislike interviewing and starting over, but I’m trying to leave.

It hasn’t happened yet, but if this pilot group doesn’t get a decent contract attitudes will become very sour. And the new guys are always the first to take the heat in this kind of situation. If that happens here I hope you like being a radio operator and being treated like a scab (and I’m not speculating whether you deserve it).

Fair warning. I wish you the best of luck in your career.

Duct Mon

Thank you for reposting this. If only this would have been made available to me earlier I would've never come here. I was foolish in believing the former CP and asst CP when they said that a new contract was sooooo close that we would have one by the end of the year. Haha, they never said which year.
Coming here was a mistake. I gave up a 6 figure flying job with relative good base seniority. I paid for a hotel during training and ride share or rental car. What a huge financial burden and I'm still on reserve having to continue to pay for a crashpad and transportation in base. More senior FO's are agrressive bidding picking up most of any open trips so they can earn a living over these poverty wages. I get what ever is left, day trip or a red eye.
Morning rant over now where's my coffee and cigs

Powderkeg

To Mr. Hyde...are you going to set the date? Anybody hired after xx/xx/20xx is now only worthy of running the radios? I hope we don’t resort to kicking the dog as it’s misplaced and not helpful. Also I hate when people throw the term “scab” around so lightly. Let’s save that for specifically what it is...a pilot “still collecting all benefits” while others don’t.

But to Dr. Jekyll...kudos for trying to educate applicants. The first two-thirds of your post was spot on.

My advice to applicants: with the new Airbus order nobody needs to be in a hurry to get here. I’d suggest taking a wait and see approach as this place is going to be needing a LOT of pilots and will still be competing against the legacies after a new contract. The fear that this will be an impossible job to get after a contract just isn’t valid.

Bolo

Duct Mon, your penchant for the drama is over the top. I personally wish you would have not come to Frontier as well! I am very sorry that F9 has not paid for your crashpad as well. You knew what you were getting into! Now man up and quit being a p***y!