Originally Posted by SFA320

Large companies get huge group discounts when the buy insurance for their employees.
You will never beat the price and coverage on the free market. I honestly feel like pounding my head into a wall right now. This shouldnt be a discussion. Companies that make as much as F9 typically, usually, almost always have great insurance for their employees. F9 right now is an exception. In all honesty the coverage is good, but the cost is not.
I’ve got nothing else to say about this.

Originally Posted by SFA320

Large companies get huge group discounts when they buy insurance for their employees.
You will never beat the price and coverage on the free market. I honestly feel like pounding my head into a wall right now. This shouldnt be a discussion. Companies that make as much as F9 typically, usually, almost always have great insurance for their employees. F9 right now is an exception. In all honesty the coverage is good, but the cost is not.
I’ve got nothing else to say about this.

Originally Posted by SFA320

Large companies get huge group discounts when they buy insurance for their employees.
You will never beat the price and coverage on the free market. I honestly feel like pounding my head into a wall right now. This shouldnt be a discussion. Companies that make as much as F9 typically, usually, almost always have great insurance for their employees. F9 right now is an exception. In all honesty the coverage is good, but the cost is not.
I’ve got nothing else to say about this.

Originally Posted by motorboatin

My attitude is not defeatist, my attitude is one of reasonability.

Mediocre sh!t?? Negative sir, that’s what we have now. Consider the improvements we’ll gain, not some pie in the sky dream of what you feel as though your entitled. The childhood dream you obviously still cling to of being a revered and well respected airline pilot, died the day you chose to stay a narrow body airbus guy at a sh!thole, greyhoud’esque carrier. It’s just the simple reality.

I think you should also study up on ALPA policy, because we the regular pilots have no voice on what we vote on. The LEC, the voting members of our MEC are the ones who decide what gets voted on and what doesn’t. I’m guessing you’re not one of them, so your high-horse attitude about what the pilots do and don’t do is an oversimplification. Obviously we get to vote on and decide whether a TA ratifies but only after our elected officials feel it is compelling enough to send off in ballot form.

$166 to ($240something) is simply not a slight improvement. It’s over 45% increase, and that doesn’t include the DC!! So maybe ‘slight’ is a relative term, but I don’t think any accountant in the country that did your taxes the year before and then again the year after your new contract would consider your new taxable income base to be ‘slight.’

No, you didn’t say the company should pay 100% of medical. You said “if the company can change rules in their favor with respect to vacation, retirement, provide cheaper hotels and van services, have you pay all your medical insurance costs” You’re creating a hypothetical scenario with a statement like that which shows your lack of understanding, to support your agenda which is to get what YOU want because of what YOU think is most important. That is not how this works. You think the pilots should hold out for unreasonable numbers and improve everything. Well I’ll tell you what brother, I appreciate your wants and desires, but they’re unreasonable. If you were at the controls, sounds like you’d rather hold your ground at $166/hr for eternity because you feel as though you’re owed more than whats currently on the table. Meanwhile you continue to fall further and further behind, thus creating an even more impossible to fix situation. Yes, the proverbial snowball effect.

As an aside, the surcharges, if you’d done any of your homework, do exactly with our healthcare what the F9 business model does with bag fees. It’s an à la carte plan. Pay for what you need. Cut the surcharge and then you socialize the costs of the policy equally to all enrollees. It’s not just a fee that “goes away” because dracir doesn’t like it. Those with kids and a working spouse pay more because they use more of the policy benefits. Get rid of the surcharge, then those without the additional needs help fund those that use more. It’s very simple, but I have a suspicion that you’d be very unhappy paying more every month for your so called brethren just to see the surcharge go away, unless of course you’re one of the guys that has a slew of kids. In that case I’d bet that you’d love to see your brethren pay more to support your family and your life choices.

Originally Posted by therapysession

I agree. Our healthcare is pretty crummy. Does anybody know what dollar amount extra it would take on a per hour basis for us to just say screw it and buy our own healthcare?

I don't know where that would equal out. If the company said we will give you ask, plus an extra 20 per hour but you pay health care. Is that a good deal?

Originally Posted by dracir1

What you term as being reasonable is what i term as defeatist. Why do you think you’re more reasonable than me? Perhaps it’s your background or just your overall perception of your own value. I have no idea. But let’s be clear about MY perception of this company, my worth and what I feel is reasonable...

Indigo came in, bought a company in distress that was paying its labor well below market rates and cashed in. Let’s be clear here - the rates were concessionary rates and should never be confused with the words average or mediocre. We re the lowest paid Airbus pilots in America by wide margin. SW FOs make more than 15 year CAs here. Because of that, Indigo has been operating with a large profit for some time now. And, because of the business model, are primed to operate that way for MANY years to come. When the next 9/11 happens or gas prices go up, this company will be in a better position than most to weather those storms and continue operating. Therefore, the contract we’re negotiating now is for 2020 and beyond rates. You want to catch us up to 2016 . . . $245 will be well below the rates most other airlines will be making in the next 3-5 years. To catch up now means to be surpassed by the next airline shortly thereafter. This is NOT a foreign concept and is not only prevalent in airlines but also major sports figures, etc. The percentage of increase (45% or whatever) isn’t really that important to me - especially when you consider the increased percentage of profit the company has seen off our backs since they took over. I am worth every bit of at least the expected average rate of an Airbus pilot in a major US airline for 2020 and beyond. That rate should go up every year to reflect the increase of my worth. I’m not trying to hurt the company or get some massive and undeserved pay raise. I’ve EARNED it. Hell, you have too. And we’re not even talking about reparations . . . Just the amount that puts me at an average rate in 3-5 years after half the Airbus driving pilot unions renegotiate their contracts. I will never feel like just because I’m at the bottom now that I should take average now just to be at the bottom again. And remember, all this occurs and the company still makes money.

You call me unreasonable because you say I want/expect too much. I say you’re a defeatist because you expect too little.

Hopefully, we will both know soon enough, and despite what you think, every single pilot union contract ever put into place HAD to go through a vote. If more people vote for your “reasonable but less” one, I will live by it. Can you stand the pain if the masses want to try the market, possibly get released and fight for what you call “unreasonable but more?”

Originally Posted by dracir1

What you term as being reasonable is what i term as defeatist. Why do you think you’re more reasonable than me? Perhaps it’s your background or just your overall perception of your own value. I have no idea. But let’s be clear about MY perception of this company, my worth and what I feel is reasonable...

Indigo came in, bought a company in distress that was paying its labor well below market rates and cashed in. Let’s be clear here - the rates were concessionary rates and should never be confused with the words average or mediocre. We re the lowest paid Airbus pilots in America by wide margin. SW FOs make more than 15 year CAs here. Because of that, Indigo has been operating with a large profit for some time now. And, because of the business model, are primed to operate that way for MANY years to come. When the next 9/11 happens or gas prices go up, this company will be in a better position than most to weather those storms and continue operating. Therefore, the contract we’re negotiating now is for 2020 and beyond rates. You want to catch us up to 2016 . . . $245 will be well below the rates most other airlines will be making in the next 3-5 years. To catch up now means to be surpassed by the next airline shortly thereafter. This is NOT a foreign concept and is not only prevalent in airlines but also major sports figures, etc. The percentage of increase (45% or whatever) isn’t really that important to me - especially when you consider the increased percentage of profit the company has seen off our backs since they took over. I am worth every bit of at least the expected average rate of an Airbus pilot in a major US airline for 2020 and beyond. That rate should go up every year to reflect the increase of my worth. I’m not trying to hurt the company or get some massive and undeserved pay raise. I’ve EARNED it. Hell, you have too. And we’re not even talking about reparations . . . Just the amount that puts me at an average rate in 3-5 years after half the Airbus driving pilot unions renegotiate their contracts. I will never feel like just because I’m at the bottom now that I should take average now just to be at the bottom again. And remember, all this occurs and the company still makes money.

You call me unreasonable because you say I want/expect too much. I say you’re a defeatist because you expect too little.

Hopefully, we will both know soon enough, and despite what you think, every single pilot union contract ever put into place HAD to go through a vote. If more people vote for your “reasonable but less” one, I will live by it. Can you stand the pain if the masses want to try the market, possibly get released and fight for what you call “unreasonable but more?”

Originally Posted by Tjamaica

Curious, what is the typical cost per month for a family of 4? Thanks