Frontier Negotiations Discussion
01-24-2018, 03:24 PM
#782
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: doggy style
Posts: 1,006
01-24-2018, 04:38 PM
#784
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
That’s classic. Yep, I’m a troll you buffoon. Someone calls you out and you revert to the unoriginal troll accusation. I’m sure you’ve been around for 11 years and I’m sure you’ve probably been through this process more times than me. My question, were you this clueless during your previous experiences or have you simply back tracked in your own personal evolution?? Actually it looks more like back pedaling when I recall your previous posts. -Troll
01-24-2018, 05:36 PM
#785
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 79
01-24-2018, 11:16 PM
#786
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 18
Again, the timing of all the NK representations here seems very strange. I’m gonna call u all “so called NK pilots” as I dont believe any pilots, at any level, would be this naive.
So the thought process is that the TRO didn’t cause any sort of loss in terms of time or money but instead actually sped up negotiations? Ok.
In any negotiation, the most important aspect is leverage. That’s is basic Negotiating 101. You always want to be negotiating from a position of more strength. And, you always, always, always ask for more than the last comparable entity. When pro athletes ask for a new contract, very few settle for what’s good enough or middle of the pack (unless their services dictate such). Both of our groups fly A321s with more passengers than any other domestic airline. Our procedures are not substandard. We don’t fly more recklessly than JB or Virgin. We (that’s both you and me) deserve to be paid among the highest if not THE highest paid Airbus pilots in the country. Period. Doesn’t matter how much of an increase in cost it might be for the company. Doesn’t matter how long it’s been since the last contract. It is the companys job to find a way to make a profit selling airline transport services to pay their pilot group what they are worth, not yours. If they need to charge higher prices or find a way to pack more people in the back, so be it. I do my job with precision and dedication, so should they.
So called NK and fellow F9, you are selling yourself short of you think for a second your wages and benefits should be less than the tops in the industry. It’s unfortunate that NK will be capped by the NMB but so far, we haven’t been. It’s our duty to ourselves and all the pilot groups in the industry to hold out for as much as we can. We’ve come this far. We’ve behaved appropriately despite inciteful and devious tactics from the company. We need an industry leading (or very dayum close to it) contract in terms of wages, scope, vacation, insurance, etc.
So the thought process is that the TRO didn’t cause any sort of loss in terms of time or money but instead actually sped up negotiations? Ok.
In any negotiation, the most important aspect is leverage. That’s is basic Negotiating 101. You always want to be negotiating from a position of more strength. And, you always, always, always ask for more than the last comparable entity. When pro athletes ask for a new contract, very few settle for what’s good enough or middle of the pack (unless their services dictate such). Both of our groups fly A321s with more passengers than any other domestic airline. Our procedures are not substandard. We don’t fly more recklessly than JB or Virgin. We (that’s both you and me) deserve to be paid among the highest if not THE highest paid Airbus pilots in the country. Period. Doesn’t matter how much of an increase in cost it might be for the company. Doesn’t matter how long it’s been since the last contract. It is the companys job to find a way to make a profit selling airline transport services to pay their pilot group what they are worth, not yours. If they need to charge higher prices or find a way to pack more people in the back, so be it. I do my job with precision and dedication, so should they.
So called NK and fellow F9, you are selling yourself short of you think for a second your wages and benefits should be less than the tops in the industry. It’s unfortunate that NK will be capped by the NMB but so far, we haven’t been. It’s our duty to ourselves and all the pilot groups in the industry to hold out for as much as we can. We’ve come this far. We’ve behaved appropriately despite inciteful and devious tactics from the company. We need an industry leading (or very dayum close to it) contract in terms of wages, scope, vacation, insurance, etc.
The NMB will ice you guy like us.
01-25-2018, 03:31 AM
#787
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 409
NMB didnt “ice” us, that isnt really a thing. They just wont schedule any more dates.
You guys talking down the SPIRIT AIP can bet your sweet asses though that if Indigo throws anything remotley close to SPIRITS AIP at F9 N/C there is zero, and I mean zero chance of getting released
You guys talking down the SPIRIT AIP can bet your sweet asses though that if Indigo throws anything remotley close to SPIRITS AIP at F9 N/C there is zero, and I mean zero chance of getting released
01-25-2018, 04:21 AM
#788
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 617
NMB didnt “ice” us, that isnt really a thing. They just wont schedule any more dates.
You guys talking down the SPIRIT AIP can bet your sweet asses though that if Indigo throws anything remotley close to SPIRITS AIP at F9 N/C there is zero, and I mean zero chance of getting released
You guys talking down the SPIRIT AIP can bet your sweet asses though that if Indigo throws anything remotley close to SPIRITS AIP at F9 N/C there is zero, and I mean zero chance of getting released
Call it what you want but no meetings (which is generally referred to as being on ice) is a way for the NMB to send a message to labor that they feel that labor needs to be more reasonable.
That said, Frontier doesn't need to offer anything to avoid release. It's not going to happen anytime soon with the current political climate. Unfortunately we're in this battle for the long haul. Our only hope in the short term is that the new hire classes dry up and attrition increases.
01-25-2018, 05:42 AM
#789
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 333
No, they don't stamp a paper that says you're on "ice". They just don't call you back for a very long time. It happens. It's a cute name, like "I'm in the dog house" or "he fell off the wagon", which this career will induce.
01-25-2018, 06:11 AM
#790
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,442
That said, Frontier doesn't need to offer anything to avoid release. It's not going to happen anytime soon with the current political climate. Unfortunately we're in this battle for the long haul. Our only hope in the short term is that the new hire classes dry up and attrition increases.
People go to aviation school and earn their wings. Lots of time and preparation (regardless of civilian or military). Then, they build up hours which takes even more time. Then they prepare their resume and shop themselves at conferences, etc. They fill out applications at AirlineApps and other places. Some, like me, even do some time at a regional or two building up more time and experience.
Then, they get username for APC and somehow lose all common sense and reason.
So, you mean to tell me that Indigo could continue to stall our NC for EVER and nothing would come of it? That F9 pilots could just be stuck w/ their current contract and the NMB just shrug their shoulders and say "Well, it's not the greatest contract but it's not so bad that we should release you to self help"?
No, I'm thinking the guys and gals at the NMB are smarter than that. They understand the FINANCIAL climate of the airlines right now (which is to say approaching as prosperous a time as before 9/11) and realize just how much profit Indigo is making. And, they realize a great deal of that profit stems from paying their labor the LOWEST amount in the industry.
Oh, so now you say maybe they need to offer us something. Well, they have. It was much worse than the NK AIP. And you think that if negotiations continue w/ the ridiculous offer they made, that might just get us released but the NK offer won't. If we get what NK got offered, we won't get released because that offer is the bar - the baseline by which any offer comparable or better will result in non-release? You're SURE that offer, still well below most of the industry flying the same or similar planes, is at least enough to be put on ice like NK - a pilot group that had a TRO placed on them? Despite F9's history as being one of the highest paid but accepted concessions in their last contract to keep the company alive (and not strand thousands of airline passengers w/ worthless tickets awaiting refunds from a bankrupt company)? Despite the fact that the pilot group was ALREADY supposed to be paid much more via their LOA 67 which, when disputed, found the company to be not negotiating in good faith? None of that matters because the NMB is stupid or just unwilling to consider history or who's in office?
Really?
Ya know, all this trolling is starting to make sense to me. Just minutes after that NK AIP came out and their pilot group was told negotiations were over and, it seems like everybody and their brother came to this thread trying their hardest to be as disruptive and derogatory as possible towards the F9 pilot group. Now that NK is done, "they" can concentrate efforts on us. This amount of trolling has me thinking it's a good sign - "they" being mgt/Indigo knows the battle w/ our pilot group is going to go to the wire and are afraid of what might result...
Last edited by dracir1; 01-25-2018 at 06:35 AM.
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