Frontier Negotiations Discussion
12-15-2017, 01:58 PM
#572
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Beech 1900D
Posts: 280
I am getting a little sick of the word “naive”. All the union busting trolls on here seem to be using the buzzword “naive”. How about this: ClearCreek is “naive” because he has tried to incite illegal job actions on numerous threads, including on a thread regarding Spirit’s TRO...talk about “naive”...
12-15-2017, 02:59 PM
#573
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 305
I am getting a little sick of the word “naive”. All the union busting trolls on here seem to be using the buzzword “naive”. How about this: ClearCreek is “naive” because he has tried to incite illegal job actions on numerous threads, including on a thread regarding Spirit’s TRO...talk about “naive”...
Quit being so naive!
12-15-2017, 10:31 PM
#574
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 227
You are not a Spirit pilot. Why in the world would you be on our forum working this hard to sway our opinion to accept something as “unrealistic” as you say while also assuming we are asking “Delta or better”. Btw, I wish I were young and naive but that was several decades ago.
This, everyone, is a perfect example of a paid management troll attempting to adjust our very reasonable expectations. I will label you for every post you make, and any alter egos you use.
Our union leaders and NC have done an exceptional job in the environment they have been working in (Franke, Biffle, NMB, a very reasonable ask, everyone doing their job professionally and not getting emotional) and have my full support.
Ignore this paid management troll.
This, everyone, is a perfect example of a paid management troll attempting to adjust our very reasonable expectations. I will label you for every post you make, and any alter egos you use.
Our union leaders and NC have done an exceptional job in the environment they have been working in (Franke, Biffle, NMB, a very reasonable ask, everyone doing their job professionally and not getting emotional) and have my full support.
Ignore this paid management troll.
12-16-2017, 09:20 AM
#575
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,442
First, everyone will have an opinion. Be it pilot, company management, disinterested 3rd party, whomever. You can’t control who posts here and neither can I. To get upset or resort to name calling because someone’s words disagree with yours is silly. For the life of me I can’t understand why people charged with flying some of the most sophisticated equipment ever created can’t learn how to ignore someone else when they’re saying something that they don’t agree with.
Second, and more important (especially for those who might be labeled naive -as I was one of those), it is YOUR job to learn the facts. Each and every pilot, regardless of company, has a duty to themselves and their fellow pilot to become educated on the history of airline negotiations, the lean or slant of current day politics, the backgrounds of the NMB members involved as well as what their particular union negotiating committee is doing. I would bet half the pilots on here don’t know the top 5 priorities of their NC and/or how they plan on going about and getting it. Half the info you need can be simply googled...
If every pilot were to do that, then any so-called company trolls that posted here wouldn’t be influential and/or paid attention to (and hopefully leave due to lack of interaction).
All this b#$ching is pointless and (unless it’s funny like the previous GFY rants) has no place here. FOCUS! Do your freaking job. Fly straight, learn and save some $ just in case your pilot group gets the opportunity to strike. Come on here for fun/entertainment and possibly view an opinion or two that you hadn’t thought of (which should inspire you to either do more research or become more involved with your own NC).
But all this bickering, name calling, back and forth is exactly what each and every airline mgt wants right now. Now is the time for unity, education and solidarity.
Last edited by dracir1; 12-16-2017 at 10:04 AM.
12-16-2017, 12:55 PM
#576
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: Cuantos por su hermana?
Posts: 61
Whether he/she is or isn’t, really doesn’t matter. There are some lessons to be learned here - for both sides.
First, everyone will have an opinion. Be it pilot, company management, disinterested 3rd party, whomever. You can’t control who posts here and neither can I. To get upset or resort to name calling because someone’s words disagree with yours is silly. For the life of me I can’t understand why people charged with flying some of the most sophisticated equipment ever created can’t learn how to ignore someone else when they’re saying something that they don’t agree with.
Second, and more important (especially for those who might be labeled naive -as I was one of those), it is YOUR job to learn the facts. Each and every pilot, regardless of company, has a duty to themselves and their fellow pilot to become educated on the history of airline negotiations, the lean or slant of current day politics, the backgrounds of the NMB members involved as well as what their particular union negotiating committee is doing. I would bet half the pilots on here don’t know the top 5 priorities of their NC and/or how they plan on going about and getting it. Half the info you need can be simply googled...
If every pilot were to do that, then any so-called company trolls that posted here wouldn’t be influential and/or paid attention to (and hopefully leave due to lack of interaction).
All this b#$ching is pointless and (unless it’s funny like the previous GFY rants) has no place here. FOCUS! Do your freaking job. Fly straight, learn and save some $ just in case your pilot group gets the opportunity to strike. Come on here for fun/entertainment and possibly view an opinion or two that you hadn’t thought of (which should inspire you to either do more research or become more involved with your own NC).
But all this bickering, name calling, back and forth is exactly what each and every airline mgt wants right now. Now is the time for unity, education and solidarity.
First, everyone will have an opinion. Be it pilot, company management, disinterested 3rd party, whomever. You can’t control who posts here and neither can I. To get upset or resort to name calling because someone’s words disagree with yours is silly. For the life of me I can’t understand why people charged with flying some of the most sophisticated equipment ever created can’t learn how to ignore someone else when they’re saying something that they don’t agree with.
Second, and more important (especially for those who might be labeled naive -as I was one of those), it is YOUR job to learn the facts. Each and every pilot, regardless of company, has a duty to themselves and their fellow pilot to become educated on the history of airline negotiations, the lean or slant of current day politics, the backgrounds of the NMB members involved as well as what their particular union negotiating committee is doing. I would bet half the pilots on here don’t know the top 5 priorities of their NC and/or how they plan on going about and getting it. Half the info you need can be simply googled...
If every pilot were to do that, then any so-called company trolls that posted here wouldn’t be influential and/or paid attention to (and hopefully leave due to lack of interaction).
All this b#$ching is pointless and (unless it’s funny like the previous GFY rants) has no place here. FOCUS! Do your freaking job. Fly straight, learn and save some $ just in case your pilot group gets the opportunity to strike. Come on here for fun/entertainment and possibly view an opinion or two that you hadn’t thought of (which should inspire you to either do more research or become more involved with your own NC).
But all this bickering, name calling, back and forth is exactly what each and every airline mgt wants right now. Now is the time for unity, education and solidarity.
12-19-2017, 05:40 AM
#578
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 617
Don't do that without instructions from the union. If it became a concerted effort on our part to go that route we would lose whatever good graces we have from them. After they deny the proffer I expect our union may instruct us to do just that.
12-19-2017, 07:23 AM
#579
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 306
Someone should send this article to the Mediator and NMB.
https://amp.businessinsider.com/delt...flying-2017-12
It's an article about Delta improving its tech but there are some interesting tidbits within the article.
..."Over the past few years, the Atlanta-based carrier has become the most profitable airline in the world while upgrading its product offerings and boosting employee pay. In 2016, the airline reported more than $4.4 billion in net income while returning $1.1 billion to its employees through profit sharing."...
..."We had a number of things we had to invest in and the most important thing was our people," Bastian said. "People had taken pay cuts. There were job losses and we needed to restore some of their faith in our company."...
..."Bastian said the overall pay at Delta, including profit sharing, is up 80% since 2008. "Our people get the first fruits, and then we had to invest in ..."...
These snippets speak volumes to the reasonableness of our proposal and the mind numbing greed and contempt for employees by this company. Please spare us from the "Frontier is not Delta" or similar retorts. Our ask isn't close to Delta! In fact it keeps us solidly near the bottom of the industry for years to come. The fact is, everything we are demanding is easily affordable and sustainable by the company.
100% READY TO STRIKE
https://amp.businessinsider.com/delt...flying-2017-12
It's an article about Delta improving its tech but there are some interesting tidbits within the article.
..."Over the past few years, the Atlanta-based carrier has become the most profitable airline in the world while upgrading its product offerings and boosting employee pay. In 2016, the airline reported more than $4.4 billion in net income while returning $1.1 billion to its employees through profit sharing."...
..."We had a number of things we had to invest in and the most important thing was our people," Bastian said. "People had taken pay cuts. There were job losses and we needed to restore some of their faith in our company."...
..."Bastian said the overall pay at Delta, including profit sharing, is up 80% since 2008. "Our people get the first fruits, and then we had to invest in ..."...
These snippets speak volumes to the reasonableness of our proposal and the mind numbing greed and contempt for employees by this company. Please spare us from the "Frontier is not Delta" or similar retorts. Our ask isn't close to Delta! In fact it keeps us solidly near the bottom of the industry for years to come. The fact is, everything we are demanding is easily affordable and sustainable by the company.
100% READY TO STRIKE
12-19-2017, 04:04 PM
#580
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 180
Someone should send this article to the Mediator and NMB.
https://amp.businessinsider.com/delt...flying-2017-12
It's an article about Delta improving its tech but there are some interesting tidbits within the article.
..."Over the past few years, the Atlanta-based carrier has become the most profitable airline in the world while upgrading its product offerings and boosting employee pay. In 2016, the airline reported more than $4.4 billion in net income while returning $1.1 billion to its employees through profit sharing."...
..."We had a number of things we had to invest in and the most important thing was our people," Bastian said. "People had taken pay cuts. There were job losses and we needed to restore some of their faith in our company."...
..."Bastian said the overall pay at Delta, including profit sharing, is up 80% since 2008. "Our people get the first fruits, and then we had to invest in ..."...
These snippets speak volumes to the reasonableness of our proposal and the mind numbing greed and contempt for employees by this company. Please spare us from the "Frontier is not Delta" or similar retorts. Our ask isn't close to Delta! In fact it keeps us solidly near the bottom of the industry for years to come. The fact is, everything we are demanding is easily affordable and sustainable by the company.
100% READY TO STRIKE
https://amp.businessinsider.com/delt...flying-2017-12
It's an article about Delta improving its tech but there are some interesting tidbits within the article.
..."Over the past few years, the Atlanta-based carrier has become the most profitable airline in the world while upgrading its product offerings and boosting employee pay. In 2016, the airline reported more than $4.4 billion in net income while returning $1.1 billion to its employees through profit sharing."...
..."We had a number of things we had to invest in and the most important thing was our people," Bastian said. "People had taken pay cuts. There were job losses and we needed to restore some of their faith in our company."...
..."Bastian said the overall pay at Delta, including profit sharing, is up 80% since 2008. "Our people get the first fruits, and then we had to invest in ..."...
These snippets speak volumes to the reasonableness of our proposal and the mind numbing greed and contempt for employees by this company. Please spare us from the "Frontier is not Delta" or similar retorts. Our ask isn't close to Delta! In fact it keeps us solidly near the bottom of the industry for years to come. The fact is, everything we are demanding is easily affordable and sustainable by the company.
100% READY TO STRIKE
Not saying you’re wrong, but how can you quantify that?? Simple fact is that the Co is being rewarded right now for doing nothing. There is no motivation for them to do anything. They keep delaying and dragging a$$ and they laugh all the way to the bank. Indigo doesn’t care about you or me any more than they do there own garbage man. They see us as replaceable widgets and why would you pay more when you don’t have to! YOU WOULDN’T! They threw $hit in our faces on LOA67 and have no conscience to think they’ve done anything wrong whatsoever. They will keep rolling in the dough for a long time because they’re enabled to do so.
I’m sorry, but the post above simply doesn’t resonate. This isn’t Delta; in so many ways, but maybe the greatest difference is the pure fact that Indigo isn’t trying to sell the wholesome family image that Delta is. Delta plasters “The best employees” all over everything from planes to advertisements to the employee busses. No one at Frontier gives a rats skinless tail about you and the sooner everyone realizes that, the better. This process is going to drag, I’m sorry to say, but it’s evident. The only way to improve your situation is to leave. I can’t believe I see posts and hear people chant that this is still a good place to work. AYFK me??? This place is laughable. Pilots have been disgraced and wronged.
The only thing dumber than trying to pressure the NMB through your senators and congressmen is to continually engage in an Interview thread on this forum. It’s quite evident that the union is encouraging pilots to go elsewhere, so Frontier pilots...when you’re giving advice to people speculating on F9 for employment, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the d!ck. One of the few bits of leverage we have right now is increasing the resignations and shutting down their recruiting efforts. Come on people! I realize we’d all like to help others progress in their careers, but until our contract is complete, we should show solidarity ONLY to our fellow pilots currently on the seniority list. That is the most important job for us right now. As soon as our deal is complete, we can be back to business as usual from the recruiting and mentoring standpoint.
Obviously, we are all frustrated...Rant Over.
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