Frontier Negotiations Discussion
12-08-2018, 12:17 PM
#4141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 497
I think it says that they are embarrassed to admit they voted yes for a POS contract.
12-08-2018, 12:29 PM
#4142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 234
I agree with a lot of what you say and I do understand your argument. With that said, I am willing to take the gamble of voting this down. This TA fell short in so many areas and the duration is too long. We will never catch up if we cement our position at the bottom for so long.
It’s only partially about the money. PBS is a huge concession for me. With PBS my 7 days of vacation would be expandable to 9 versus being expandable to 22 as it can be in our current contract. That is a huge QOL concession for me. The rest of the contract does not make up for this concession. Some will argue that only senior people can effectively do that. Guess what? Everyone’s seniority is going up over the duration of this contract and our time remaining at Frontier. I don’t want to give up QOL for all of my remaining years.
I would rather send this back and find out what is behind door number TA2, than always wonder if we could have done better. Even if it takes a while or we end up disappointed in TA2, we will know that we tried to do the right thing. We would have our professional pilot self respect and dignity.
It’s only partially about the money. PBS is a huge concession for me. With PBS my 7 days of vacation would be expandable to 9 versus being expandable to 22 as it can be in our current contract. That is a huge QOL concession for me. The rest of the contract does not make up for this concession. Some will argue that only senior people can effectively do that. Guess what? Everyone’s seniority is going up over the duration of this contract and our time remaining at Frontier. I don’t want to give up QOL for all of my remaining years.
I would rather send this back and find out what is behind door number TA2, than always wonder if we could have done better. Even if it takes a while or we end up disappointed in TA2, we will know that we tried to do the right thing. We would have our professional pilot self respect and dignity.
Not trying to get into a fight, and I understand there are things people are both happy and unhappy about, the most frustrating thing about this process is the fact that people continue to make statements based on assumptions that are patently untrue.
Whiskey, vacation will absolutely be different under PBS, but to state that your 22 day vacation will be 9 under PBS is incorrect. Under PBS if you choose to designate 2 days as inviolate, you will have a block of 9 days off for your vacation. Per the known absences chart in LOA 3 you will be guaranteed AT LEAST an additional 8 days off no matter how junior you are for a total of 17 days off minimum. Then you will use your seniority to bid pairings to either give you more days off of maximize your monthly credit. So, assuming you have vacation in the middle of the month, if you want max days off, you bid a trip at the beginning of the month and one at the end and you wind end up with your 22-25 days off in a row.
12-08-2018, 12:31 PM
#4143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 268
Or they are ok with it but there are too many Loud J******s on APC who just want to ridicule them or tell them how they should vote even if it’s against what that person needs. Maybe you should read back over these posts and see what our group of NO voters says to people who want to vote yes and then ask again why others won’t admit it....
12-08-2018, 12:33 PM
#4144
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 70
Does anyone realize they are saying an F9 pilot credits an average of 90+ hours per month which can only be obtained using historical data from a system that allows us to credit 120+/ month which happens to also be the same system we are being asked giving up?
12-08-2018, 12:46 PM
#4146
Slave
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: Hot tub
Posts: 1,411
I love how people only point to the things they get....what about the things they don’t get?
Block or better per leg
5 hours per day for vacation
75 vs 72 hour guarantee
1.25 over 82
And.....you don’t have to say “Spirit wings”!!!
Seriously though....no one of our flights would qualify for an international override under their definitions. Per Diem works out to be a loss of about $40/month (small potatoes). 321 overide is an additional 2% a month. Reserve rules? Who cares...I’m not on reserve. I’ll give you LTD....that one hurts!
Block or better per leg
5 hours per day for vacation
75 vs 72 hour guarantee
1.25 over 82
And.....you don’t have to say “Spirit wings”!!!
Seriously though....no one of our flights would qualify for an international override under their definitions. Per Diem works out to be a loss of about $40/month (small potatoes). 321 overide is an additional 2% a month. Reserve rules? Who cares...I’m not on reserve. I’ll give you LTD....that one hurts!
75 vs 72.... who cares fly 70
Reserve rules....”I’m selfish”
LTD... CRAP
OVERRIDES...NONE
VAC....historically knock out 45+ (that’s 6-7 hrs)
82..... who cares fly 70
Child surcharge.....WTF
BONUS/back pay.....33%
Duration......5yrs...ptfffff
401k..... 3% below standard
SDT....so much foR 5 hr min
Sick makeup.....by hr but charged BY DAY
The ICING....
NO PBS LANGUAGE...” trust mgmt to negotiate in GOOD FAITH”
12-08-2018, 12:56 PM
#4147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 104
Perdiem......Tafb 300 X .25 = $75
75 vs 72.... who cares fly 70
Reserve rules....”I’m selfish”
LTD... CRAP
OVERRIDES...NONE
VAC....historically knock out 45+ (that’s 6-7 hrs)
82..... who cares fly 70
Child surcharge.....WTF
BONUS/back pay.....33%
Duration......5yrs...ptfffff
401k..... 3% below standard
SDT....so much foR 5 hr min
Sick makeup.....by hr but charged BY DAY
The ICING....
NO PBS LANGUAGE...” trust mgmt to negotiate in GOOD FAITH”
75 vs 72.... who cares fly 70
Reserve rules....”I’m selfish”
LTD... CRAP
OVERRIDES...NONE
VAC....historically knock out 45+ (that’s 6-7 hrs)
82..... who cares fly 70
Child surcharge.....WTF
BONUS/back pay.....33%
Duration......5yrs...ptfffff
401k..... 3% below standard
SDT....so much foR 5 hr min
Sick makeup.....by hr but charged BY DAY
The ICING....
NO PBS LANGUAGE...” trust mgmt to negotiate in GOOD FAITH”
Funny how there was no mention of scope but that’s how you roll right? Living on the edge?
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