Frontier Negotiations Discussion
12-06-2018, 06:01 PM
#4052
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,666
Don’t know if this is real or a troll post but...
Anyone who votes yes based on compensation of 90+ hours scares me for two reasons:
1). We negotiated this compensation package based on line bidding. Even the examples mentioned were of running Dec lines through changes made average duty day, DH, etc. What’s to keep mgt from setting the parameters for PBS to maximize 5 hr duty days, layovers of 13.5 hours or less and minimize DHs? If you’re used to 90+ hours, PBS could be set to spit out tons of 20 hour 4 day trips and 15 hour 3 day trips. Therefore, tons of non-senior lineholders could be saddled with three 20 hour 4 days and one 15 hour 3 day and one 10 hour 2 day for 85 hours. That’s working 17 days a month with minimal 125% pay. Instead of the 3 day, PBS could even give us a 15 hour 4 day with only 3 duty periods (long layover), eliminate the 2 day and work us 16 days for only 75 hours. The only way to get to 90 hours would be to pick up another 3 day (that’s only 11 days off). Is there a min% # of trips that must be contained in the new incentived trip folder? Who’s to say the folder gets created but never has anything in it?
Two) and more importantly, you’re willing to base your vote on getting 90+ hours when not all other pilots are willing to work that schedule. But screw them, right? Every man for himself, right? It’s this mentality that mgt was hoping for...
Mgt played us beautifully in that we negotiated for months based on non-PBS and then slipped PBS in at the end. We should’ve gone back and RENEGOTIATED the scheduling section and/or set the min parameters for PBS such that it doesn’t negate all the gains made.
Anyone who votes yes based on compensation of 90+ hours scares me for two reasons:
1). We negotiated this compensation package based on line bidding. Even the examples mentioned were of running Dec lines through changes made average duty day, DH, etc. What’s to keep mgt from setting the parameters for PBS to maximize 5 hr duty days, layovers of 13.5 hours or less and minimize DHs? If you’re used to 90+ hours, PBS could be set to spit out tons of 20 hour 4 day trips and 15 hour 3 day trips. Therefore, tons of non-senior lineholders could be saddled with three 20 hour 4 days and one 15 hour 3 day and one 10 hour 2 day for 85 hours. That’s working 17 days a month with minimal 125% pay. Instead of the 3 day, PBS could even give us a 15 hour 4 day with only 3 duty periods (long layover), eliminate the 2 day and work us 16 days for only 75 hours. The only way to get to 90 hours would be to pick up another 3 day (that’s only 11 days off). Is there a min% # of trips that must be contained in the new incentived trip folder? Who’s to say the folder gets created but never has anything in it?
Two) and more importantly, you’re willing to base your vote on getting 90+ hours when not all other pilots are willing to work that schedule. But screw them, right? Every man for himself, right? It’s this mentality that mgt was hoping for...
Mgt played us beautifully in that we negotiated for months based on non-PBS and then slipped PBS in at the end. We should’ve gone back and RENEGOTIATED the scheduling section and/or set the min parameters for PBS such that it doesn’t negate all the gains made.
That being said, what stops the company from doing any of those things to our pairings right now? Why wait until PBS?
12-06-2018, 08:01 PM
#4054
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 79
I was waiting for the full language while leaning no, I’m now a hard no.
Vacation expandable up to 9 days, the ability for scheduling to reassign you during the footprint of your trip. Only pays time and a half if it exceeds your footprint by more than 3 hours. Lost medium call, gained longer stretches of being on call. “Average” min “duty-period” is about as weak as it gets. I don’t see many instances where the 3.5 trip rig wouldn’t already cover that.
To be fair we made gains in some areas but nothing that really stood out as industry leading. We gave the company a lot more flexibility in several areas also. Overall I’m disappointed with this TA and hope we get another crack at it.
Vacation expandable up to 9 days, the ability for scheduling to reassign you during the footprint of your trip. Only pays time and a half if it exceeds your footprint by more than 3 hours. Lost medium call, gained longer stretches of being on call. “Average” min “duty-period” is about as weak as it gets. I don’t see many instances where the 3.5 trip rig wouldn’t already cover that.
To be fair we made gains in some areas but nothing that really stood out as industry leading. We gave the company a lot more flexibility in several areas also. Overall I’m disappointed with this TA and hope we get another crack at it.
12-06-2018, 08:35 PM
#4055
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 234
I was waiting for the full language while leaning no, I’m now a hard no.
Vacation expandable up to 9 days, the ability for scheduling to reassign you during the footprint of your trip. Only pays time and a half if it exceeds your footprint by more than 3 hours. Lost medium call, gained longer stretches of being on call. “Average” min “duty-period” is about as weak as it gets. I don’t see many instances where the 3.5 trip rig wouldn’t already cover that.
To be fair we made gains in some areas but nothing that really stood out as industry leading. We gave the company a lot more flexibility in several areas also. Overall I’m disappointed with this TA and hope we get another crack at it.
Vacation expandable up to 9 days, the ability for scheduling to reassign you during the footprint of your trip. Only pays time and a half if it exceeds your footprint by more than 3 hours. Lost medium call, gained longer stretches of being on call. “Average” min “duty-period” is about as weak as it gets. I don’t see many instances where the 3.5 trip rig wouldn’t already cover that.
To be fair we made gains in some areas but nothing that really stood out as industry leading. We gave the company a lot more flexibility in several areas also. Overall I’m disappointed with this TA and hope we get another crack at it.
12-06-2018, 08:54 PM
#4056
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 16
I would love to know that my 2 (fdp) 2 leg Mco bs 6 hour ISP and PVD Overnights turn from 5:50 to 10. Don’t believe the hype!!! If you don’t think the fdp makes a difference, you betta check ya-self b4 you wreck ya-self.
12-06-2018, 09:43 PM
#4058
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
12-06-2018, 10:01 PM
#4059
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
I was waiting for the full language while leaning no, I’m now a hard no.
Vacation expandable up to 9 days, the ability for scheduling to reassign you during the footprint of your trip. Only pays time and a half if it exceeds your footprint by more than 3 hours. Lost medium call, gained longer stretches of being on call. “Average” min “duty-period” is about as weak as it gets. I don’t see many instances where the 3.5 trip rig wouldn’t already cover that.
To be fair we made gains in some areas but nothing that really stood out as industry leading. We gave the company a lot more flexibility in several areas also. Overall I’m disappointed with this TA and hope we get another crack at it.
Vacation expandable up to 9 days, the ability for scheduling to reassign you during the footprint of your trip. Only pays time and a half if it exceeds your footprint by more than 3 hours. Lost medium call, gained longer stretches of being on call. “Average” min “duty-period” is about as weak as it gets. I don’t see many instances where the 3.5 trip rig wouldn’t already cover that.
To be fair we made gains in some areas but nothing that really stood out as industry leading. We gave the company a lot more flexibility in several areas also. Overall I’m disappointed with this TA and hope we get another crack at it.
Those 2 days of vacation you can put on either end are your days off anyway so it isn't like you are getting 2 more days off that month just able to bid 9. The reassignment part makes you a full time reserve pilot. Reserve in general is worse now. You are right about the fair gains, but we lost quite a bit that is not mentioned by the union. Vacation, training bidding, all worse. No unstack rules. Why are we in a hurry to write the language later? Pay slope sucks for junior guys compared to what others make, and we don't have own occupation after 2 years. Still no electronic processing of open time via Flica. This TA just didn't win me over. It needed more in about every dept.
12-07-2018, 01:12 AM
#4060
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: HS-125 Left
Posts: 13
From where we were to where we are, I'm a yes vote so far. Unless there's language we must cut off our left testicle, I'm not going to change my mind. I work 90+ hours a month and love the gains I will get. Fortunately, most of this pilot group credits 90+ hours already and will gain big.
Anyone who was expecting anything other than this kind of TA was delusional... And to be frank it's not bad. Oh well, the MEC could have brought us DL and fills like reserveCA would still not be happy. They let their emotions drive them.
FWIW, without this new language in section 1, we could be bought/sold/merged and we're f'ed.
Peace out, everyone.
Anyone who was expecting anything other than this kind of TA was delusional... And to be frank it's not bad. Oh well, the MEC could have brought us DL and fills like reserveCA would still not be happy. They let their emotions drive them.
FWIW, without this new language in section 1, we could be bought/sold/merged and we're f'ed.
Peace out, everyone.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
