dracir1

The real issue is - we need to all agree on something.

We either vote this in (which might take care of itself - I’m a NO vote btw in case it isn’t evident elsewhere) or have a BIG majority of NO votes with a very SPECIFIC agenda for correction.

Maybe it’s profit sharing. Maybe it’s contract duration. Maybe it’s a 4% increase per year (instead of 3 and 2) starting DOS + 1 to try and “catch up” a little. Maybe something else (straight wage #s, “me too” clause with some other airline, insert your idea here).

I think a true win - win solution is to start with this AIP but put in reasonable assurances that we can get to at least what is industry average NOW by contract end (fully knowing industry average is about to go up). My fear is that we vote in this AIP like it is and by the time we renegotiate a new one, we’ll be, once again, so far behind that we won’t ever catch up and solidify our position as bottom dwellers.

Aero1900

I agree. If we vote NO, it has to be resounding and have a specific problem we want fixed.

We would need an organized counter plan and a set demand. Right now we have neither. If we could strongly vote this down and have 1 or 2 specific demands we might be on to something.

Who's going to launch a large scale campaign to bring this group to a resounding no? We cant vote it down by 2% and expect any significant improvement in TA2

Wheelswatch

Nope, you're right. Sadly this is as good as signed, sealed, delivered.

Never going to happen, the horse is out of the gate. Sit back and watch it happen to you.

I know I sound flippant right now, but we all know it's true. The first couple days there seemed to be some strength in the dissident voices, but that has waned big time now. Both here, fb, and in the cockpit.


I can't get an answer on this in another thread, so may I ask it here? Has anyone gotten any intel on trip splitting going forward?

ColdWhiskey

Deep breath folks. Some of the unnecessary name calling and general meanness is not warranted. I suggest we can have meaningful, thoughtful, educational debate without it.

Some thoughts, and of course they are my opinion only. First, our current contract is not horrible. At the time, it was industry leading in some regards. We are now a couple cycles behind our peers, and we find ourselves playing catch-up. Thank you to our peers for doing their part and helping to raise the bar so high.

Second, and this is a big one. Our current contract IS STILL INDUSTRY LEADING in regards to the genererous scheduling provisions. Our current line bidding system affords us more schedule flexibility and control than any of our legacy peers. Our ability to effectively turn 1 week of vacation into 3 consecutive weeks off is something that our peers at Delta and United can not do.

Our generous ability to add, drop, swap, trade, or slide is something your friends at the legacies can not do. That to me is Quality of Life. What is that worth? How do you enter that value into some ‘financial calculator’?

This new contract is not all about the dollars for me? I am not asking for, or expecting Delta rates. What I am hoping for is to not go backwards in any sections, with some solid improvements in others. I want to be part of a group that does our part to help raise the bar.

I am hearing people say that we have no choice, that we must vote this in. We do have a choice. We have a vote. The company needs this more than we do. We hold the cards. It’s a poker game folks.

If we accept the PBS CONCESSION, it is the bidding system we will use for the rest of our career at Frontier. If we could take PBS out of this agreement, and shorten the duration to 3 or 4 years, this contract could be palpable until our next opportunity to improve it.

fcoolaiddrinker

IMO if we vote this down for a better deal that better deal should focus on pay rate and retirement increases only. PBS is not coming off the table. Indigo wants it to be able to better predict future costs so they can IPO. Example-they can show the exact cost of pilot vacations next year. Right now pilot costs are all over the map with our current agreement. Their simply never going to agree to a contract that doesn't include PBS. Focus on rate and retirement. Stop with the LTD, commuter, sick and any other issues you might have.

dracir1

While I do agree about PBS not coming off the books (which I’m convinced can be tolerable given the right language), I don’t think wages are the way to go UNLESS it’s an increase to the percent increase we get each March. I’d be fine with starting at DOS rates then increasing 4% each year. By year 5, that’d be a 16% increase in wages - we’d probably still be behind the industry but by far less of course.

That and profit sharing. PS is a good way to incentive workers to make more. 1% for every 10 million split pro rata.

SFA320

Our current contract industry leading? Man, I’ve never heard that one before. Outside of our current vacation nothing is even close to industry standard, let alone leading. At all legacies you can drop and swap. At least all my friends at United and Delta say they can. I hate to say it but outside of my vacation my friends flying for a legacy have an equal to or better qol than I do bidding fairly senior in my base.
Our current vacation is great but other than that we are currently average or below average but currently paid WELL below average. Read the AIP and make an educated decision. That’s all we can do.

dracir1

Eh I dunno.

We don’t vote for some time. All it would take would be an email from our NC/MEC asking each of us what we want most if we vote this down...

As a matter of fact, I think it’s kinda irresponsible that they haven’t already (or at least shared with us THEIR plan if it is voted down). They either don’t have a plan or think they don’t need one - not sure which is worse.

chinookwinds

One of my biggest issues, that hasn’t received much attention is that we will negotiate the specifics of PBS at a later time, with arbitration as the end game. Not sure of the specifics of the language for that as it hasn’t been shared yet.
But, are you kidding me. This management group hasn’t negotiated in good faith since the beginning of the process. Why would we trust the process now. We have waited this long, lets get it right now. negotiate the specifics of how the bidding system will work, ghost bidding months to learn the system, unstacking limitations .....

fcoolaiddrinker

Now your thinking. While i agree with your profit sharing incentive its another one of those items thats not going to happen for several reasons. One, we didn't ask for it at any point (when you start asking for items for the first time it add months to the process). Two, its like lack of PBS, it devalues F9 in an IPO scenario (by diluting investor profits) so indigo will never agree to it. Pay rates and retirement. Anything more adds time. Substantial time.