Frontier Negotiations Discussion
11-19-2018, 09:22 AM
#3511
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 418
Then bankruptcy happened. In the face of that challenge and the real possibility of Frontier going out of business, we were still able to maintain most of our CBA and QOL provisions it afforded us. Our pay and 401K were reduced, but we maintained our work rules. Under the agreement we eventually returned to our 2007 pay and 401K.
Fast forward to today. Frontier survived and Frontier has thrived, with much credit to our pilot group. It is time for us to receive the benefits or spoils from the sacrifices that we have made over the last 10 years.
Why are we now considering accepting industry BOTTOM pay and give away QOL provisions of our contract that we didn’t even give away during the bankruptcy?
It is the BEST of times in our chosen field. Now is the time to join the pattern.
11-19-2018, 10:07 AM
#3512
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
What? We are not working under a bankrupt CBA. We are working under our 2007 CBA, which at the time was industry leading in some regards. We enjoyed industry LEADING Airbus 320 pay. We enjoyed some of the best work rules in the industry with our line bidding system that provided us with incredible flexibility and control of our schedule with our generous add, drop, swap, trade, or slide ability.
Then bankruptcy happened. In the face of that challenge and the real possibility of Frontier going out of business, we were still able to maintain most of our CBA and QOL provisions it afforded us. Our pay and 401K were reduced, but we maintained our work rules. Under the agreement we eventually returned to our 2007 pay and 401K.
Fast forward to today. Frontier survived and Frontier has thrived, with much credit to our pilot group. It is time for us to receive the benefits or spoils from the sacrifices that we have made over the last 10 years.
Why are we now considering accepting industry BOTTOM pay and give away QOL provisions of our contract that we didn’t even give away during the bankruptcy?
It is the BEST of times in our chosen field. Now is the time to join the pattern.
Then bankruptcy happened. In the face of that challenge and the real possibility of Frontier going out of business, we were still able to maintain most of our CBA and QOL provisions it afforded us. Our pay and 401K were reduced, but we maintained our work rules. Under the agreement we eventually returned to our 2007 pay and 401K.
Fast forward to today. Frontier survived and Frontier has thrived, with much credit to our pilot group. It is time for us to receive the benefits or spoils from the sacrifices that we have made over the last 10 years.
Why are we now considering accepting industry BOTTOM pay and give away QOL provisions of our contract that we didn’t even give away during the bankruptcy?
It is the BEST of times in our chosen field. Now is the time to join the pattern.
Well said!
11-19-2018, 11:53 AM
#3513
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 85
What? We are not working under a bankrupt CBA. We are working under our 2007 CBA, which at the time was industry leading in some regards. We enjoyed industry LEADING Airbus 320 pay. We enjoyed some of the best work rules in the industry with our line bidding system that provided us with incredible flexibility and control of our schedule with our generous add, drop, swap, trade, or slide ability.
Then bankruptcy happened. In the face of that challenge and the real possibility of Frontier going out of business, we were still able to maintain most of our CBA and QOL provisions it afforded us. Our pay and 401K were reduced, but we maintained our work rules. Under the agreement we eventually returned to our 2007 pay and 401K.
Fast forward to today. Frontier survived and Frontier has thrived, with much credit to our pilot group. It is time for us to receive the benefits or spoils from the sacrifices that we have made over the last 10 years.
Why are we now considering accepting industry BOTTOM pay and give away QOL provisions of our contract that we didn’t even give away during the bankruptcy?
It is the BEST of times in our chosen field. Now is the time to join the pattern.
Then bankruptcy happened. In the face of that challenge and the real possibility of Frontier going out of business, we were still able to maintain most of our CBA and QOL provisions it afforded us. Our pay and 401K were reduced, but we maintained our work rules. Under the agreement we eventually returned to our 2007 pay and 401K.
Fast forward to today. Frontier survived and Frontier has thrived, with much credit to our pilot group. It is time for us to receive the benefits or spoils from the sacrifices that we have made over the last 10 years.
Why are we now considering accepting industry BOTTOM pay and give away QOL provisions of our contract that we didn’t even give away during the bankruptcy?
It is the BEST of times in our chosen field. Now is the time to join the pattern.
As I have said before. This contract negotiation process should have been nothing more then a market adjustment for pay, retirement and benefits. I understand there was a need to help the company with some improved operational efficiencies and productivity enhancements. This would be a win win for both parties and ensure the continued profit and success of our airline once Indigo finally goes away. This was addressed early on during negotiations with the scheduling TA allowing reserves to pick up open time on days off and establishing a premium folder to replace the VJA/JA process. That in itself was a huge sacrifice by eliminating a seniority based process for premium flying with zero in base protection. I think it was also agreed that the bidding process was going to be streamlined and shortened to complete MOT and bid awards in a shorter time frame.
Although, the fine print details have not been provided yet, I am certain under PBS, we will not enjoy the MOT drop, MOT swap and DOT period of flexibility we have had for many years. This process although not always perfect had set our contract above many others. (industry leading) I don’t believe the elimination of MOT and the 4% allowance for DOT will allow anywhere near the flexibility we have had in the past. I could be wrong without all the details, but I think this is a huge sacrifice for what we are getting in return in the areas of pay, retirement, per diem, LTD and length of this contract.
11-19-2018, 12:02 PM
#3514
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 330
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!!
As I have said before. This contract negotiation process should have been nothing more then a market adjustment for pay, retirement and benefits. I understand there was a need to help the company with some improved operational efficiencies and productivity enhancements. This would be a win win for both parties and ensure the continued profit and success of our airline once Indigo finally goes away. This was addressed early on during negotiations with the scheduling TA allowing reserves to pick up open time on days off and establishing a premium folder to replace the VJA/JA process. That in itself was a huge sacrifice by eliminating a seniority based process for premium flying with zero in base protection. I think it was also agreed that the bidding process was going to be streamlined and shortened to complete MOT and bid awards in a shorter time frame.
Although, the fine print details have not been provided yet, I am certain under PBS, we will not enjoy the MOT drop, MOT swap and DOT period of flexibility we have had for many years. This process although not always perfect had set our contract above many others. (industry leading) I don’t believe the elimination of MOT and the 4% allowance for DOT will allow anywhere near the flexibility we have had in the past. I could be wrong without all the details, but I think this is a huge sacrifice for what we are getting in return in the areas of pay, retirement, per diem, LTD and length of this contract.
As I have said before. This contract negotiation process should have been nothing more then a market adjustment for pay, retirement and benefits. I understand there was a need to help the company with some improved operational efficiencies and productivity enhancements. This would be a win win for both parties and ensure the continued profit and success of our airline once Indigo finally goes away. This was addressed early on during negotiations with the scheduling TA allowing reserves to pick up open time on days off and establishing a premium folder to replace the VJA/JA process. That in itself was a huge sacrifice by eliminating a seniority based process for premium flying with zero in base protection. I think it was also agreed that the bidding process was going to be streamlined and shortened to complete MOT and bid awards in a shorter time frame.
Although, the fine print details have not been provided yet, I am certain under PBS, we will not enjoy the MOT drop, MOT swap and DOT period of flexibility we have had for many years. This process although not always perfect had set our contract above many others. (industry leading) I don’t believe the elimination of MOT and the 4% allowance for DOT will allow anywhere near the flexibility we have had in the past. I could be wrong without all the details, but I think this is a huge sacrifice for what we are getting in return in the areas of pay, retirement, per diem, LTD and length of this contract.
More assumptions by NO voters ...
11-19-2018, 12:35 PM
#3516
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
Obviously he/she does not! That is why you got a sophomoric response from him/her. Information has to flow both ways. Pro's and Con's. When the final contract is available for viewing then we all can make our final decisions.
11-19-2018, 01:23 PM
#3518
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 453
I honestly hope the yes guys are right. That would be great to end up looking like an ass because I am completely wrong about all of this and the contract ends up being worthy. Would have to be some ground breaking, industry leading, water tight language in there though.
11-19-2018, 03:08 PM
#3519
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 465
Exactly, information has to flow both ways. I welcome and can learn from potential yes voters expressing their feelings now, even though a TA isn't in our hands. Why do so many of them not want to afford us (the skeptical among us) the same courtesy?
I honestly hope the yes guys are right. That would be great to end up looking like an ass because I am completely wrong about all of this and the contract ends up being worthy. Would have to be some ground breaking, industry leading, water tight language in there though.
I honestly hope the yes guys are right. That would be great to end up looking like an ass because I am completely wrong about all of this and the contract ends up being worthy. Would have to be some ground breaking, industry leading, water tight language in there though.
But yes I would also LOVE to look like a fool and have the union surprise us. I'm a realist though, there will be no great surprises.
11-19-2018, 03:13 PM
#3520
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 453
It's not worthy, it is a huge raise, and it does give us very comfortable yearly incomes for the average American. But it is also at the bottom of the industry, not even close to average, it is happening when there has never been another better bargaining environment, and it needs to be better. I can't imagine the language and work rules that would need to be present to bring the bullet points communicated up to a level that should be acceptable. The only reason it will likely pass is fear.
But yes I would also LOVE to look like a fool and have the union surprise us. I'm a realist though, there will be no great surprises.
But yes I would also LOVE to look like a fool and have the union surprise us. I'm a realist though, there will be no great surprises.
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