Frontier Negotiations Discussion
11-15-2018, 05:29 PM
#3381
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 154
Yeah, you make a great point! Screw this dog-and-pony show, I’m outta here! I’ll turn in my two weeks notice tomorrow and start class mid-December at UAL. Screw that.....I’m gonna call the duty phone right this second and tell them right where to stick this job....maybe even the System Chief Pilot himself will answer tonight!!!
Do you think as a newbie I’ll still get invited to the DEN employee Christmas party...that’s where I’ll be for training, right...Denver???Great....during ski season, too!!! What’s the training dept number? I’ll call them first thing in the AM and tell them I’m coming. I should probably fax them copies of my passport and certificates, too....maybe I’ll go ahead and fill out a W-4 or whatever it is and send that along with the other stuff. Do you think I’ll get DEN right out of IOE??? I think I’ll bid captain on the 787....hell, they’ll probably just go ahead and make me VP of goddamed flight ops.
I can’t wait to just show up and get started!!! Thanks for the suggestion......who would’ve ever thought it could be this easy to just leave and go somewhere else!!!
I’m gonna go ahead and get off APC now and go on the M&H website and order my new uniform and nifty hat!!! No.......maybe first I should call my girlfriend and tell her! She’s going to be so excited for me!
Last edited by Leslie Chow; 11-15-2018 at 05:45 PM.
11-15-2018, 05:45 PM
#3382
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 469
Yeah, you make a great point! Screw this dog-and-pony show, I’m outta here! I’ll turn in my two weeks notice tomorrow and start class mid-December at UAL. Screw that.....I’m gonna call the duty phone right this second and tell them where to stick this rat’s ass of a job....maybe even the System Chief Pilot himself will answer tonight!!!
Do you think as a newbie I’ll still get invited to the DEN employee Christmas party...that’s where I’ll be for training, right...Denver???Great....during ski season, too!!! What’s the training dept number? I’ll call them first thing in the AM and tell them I’m coming. I should probably fax them copies of my passport and certificates, too....maybe I’ll go ahead and fill out a W-4 or whatever it is and send that along with the other stuff. Do you think I’ll get DEN right out of IOE??? I think I’ll bid captain on the 787....hell, they’ll probably just go ahead and make me VP of goddamed flight ops.
I can’t wait to just show up and get started!!! Thanks for the suggestion......who would’ve ever thought it could be this easy to just leave and go somewhere else!!!
I’m gonna go ahead and get off APC now and go on the M&H website and order my new uniform and nifty hat!!! No.......maybe first I should call my girlfriend and tell her! She’s going to be so excited for me!
Do you think as a newbie I’ll still get invited to the DEN employee Christmas party...that’s where I’ll be for training, right...Denver???Great....during ski season, too!!! What’s the training dept number? I’ll call them first thing in the AM and tell them I’m coming. I should probably fax them copies of my passport and certificates, too....maybe I’ll go ahead and fill out a W-4 or whatever it is and send that along with the other stuff. Do you think I’ll get DEN right out of IOE??? I think I’ll bid captain on the 787....hell, they’ll probably just go ahead and make me VP of goddamed flight ops.
I can’t wait to just show up and get started!!! Thanks for the suggestion......who would’ve ever thought it could be this easy to just leave and go somewhere else!!!
I’m gonna go ahead and get off APC now and go on the M&H website and order my new uniform and nifty hat!!! No.......maybe first I should call my girlfriend and tell her! She’s going to be so excited for me!
11-15-2018, 05:48 PM
#3383
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 49
Call someone on the committee and get your facts straight. Your emotionalism is not allowing you to think clearly. You're acting like an alarmist. Conversations with the MEC lead me to believe that all the b!tching and moaning isn't going to change the fact that this AIP will become the TA. Put your fears aside, open your brain a little, and absorb the fact that your comments above are illegitimate and not justified. I honestly don't think in a million years that the guys that know the most would give their stamp of approval to a crappy deal! Do you?? I think the people out their crying boo-hoo are failing to recognize the fact that the MEC will ALL be here flying under this contract. Why would they push for something as pi$$ poor as you suggest???
11-15-2018, 05:52 PM
#3384
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 49
Maybe he didn’t cheat on the Hogan. Thanks for the support
Last edited by tomgoodman; 11-15-2018 at 06:50 PM. Reason: Mod edit: deleted inappropriate language
11-15-2018, 07:11 PM
#3385
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,442
The MEC has a dual job. They are union workers and pilots and these negotiations have worn them down more than most. They want a deal - now. What else would you expect them to say if/when they get called about the current AIP - that it's NOT going to pass? That they did a poor job? Trusting their word is no better than trusting mine. I have a feeling this AIP will be voted down significantly. Why?
Because of the below scenarios:
There are 10 construction workers who all do the same job w/ comparable tools in the same work environment. Three construction workers make $100 /hr with great work rules and benefits. Another makes $95 /hr but has even BETTER work rules. Another 2 make about $90 /hr and have decent work rules. Another 3 make $85 / hr and have OK to somewhat bad benefits.
YOU make $55 /hr with decent benefits. During negotiations, your boss offers your $83 /hr but decreases your benefits to somewhat bad.
Also, EVERY OTHER construction worker will negotiate new rates in the future (within 3-5 years) before you do.
Do you take the offer? If so, why? If not, what is a fair wage and benefit package for you to accept?
Because of the below scenarios:
There are 10 construction workers who all do the same job w/ comparable tools in the same work environment. Three construction workers make $100 /hr with great work rules and benefits. Another makes $95 /hr but has even BETTER work rules. Another 2 make about $90 /hr and have decent work rules. Another 3 make $85 / hr and have OK to somewhat bad benefits.
YOU make $55 /hr with decent benefits. During negotiations, your boss offers your $83 /hr but decreases your benefits to somewhat bad.
Also, EVERY OTHER construction worker will negotiate new rates in the future (within 3-5 years) before you do.
Do you take the offer? If so, why? If not, what is a fair wage and benefit package for you to accept?
11-15-2018, 08:45 PM
#3386
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 191
I'm at the point where trying to convince a yes voter is futile. Let's just VOTE for cripes sake. Let's see where we are. If the Yes's win, then so be it.
I have faith. We voted 100% ready to strike - i find it hard to believe 50% of those people are now willing to accept this. Given this is basically NK's contract (and talking w/ so many who thought they settled for much less), I think we'll all be satisfied w/ the result of a vote.
Let's get this over with and see if we are a unified pilot group w/ some worth or we're a group who think bottom is good enough.
I have faith. We voted 100% ready to strike - i find it hard to believe 50% of those people are now willing to accept this. Given this is basically NK's contract (and talking w/ so many who thought they settled for much less), I think we'll all be satisfied w/ the result of a vote.
Let's get this over with and see if we are a unified pilot group w/ some worth or we're a group who think bottom is good enough.
11-15-2018, 08:46 PM
#3387
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 191
I’m almost glad we never had to go on strike. Can you imagine how many scabs we would have on property? You guys don’t even have the balls to stand up for yourself when you’re being presented a **** sandwich. The opentime *****s deserve this contract, the guys that were unified do not. Do something about it and show the company we deserve to be considered real pilots. I can’t believe we’re going to have a new contract and I’ll still be having to update my apps bc you guys voting yes are too weak to do something about this.
11-15-2018, 09:22 PM
#3388
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 180
Why don’t you share some facts then? All I see you do is be emotional, antagonistic, and name call. Your entire post is opinion based. Go ahead and share the highlights of the conversations cause I’ve tried several means of communication and have heard nothing back. Or at least give this guy your side of things cause he sounds vastly more thoughtful about than you to this point.
11-15-2018, 11:05 PM
#3389
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 191
Not the case, sir. My opinion (yes it is my opinion) is fact based with no agenda. However, it is an informed opinion. I engage with my MEC. I don’t spout off based upon $hit I read on FB or rhetoric spilled on the line. I do realize my value and I’m smart enough to analyze what the bullet pointed rules I can quantify do for me in the world of the new contract. I’m not a simpleton that just looks at rates and then stomps my feet because I wanted more. I realize that the work rules I have turns the $245/hr rate (I’d have liked to see higher) do more for me than any of my counterparts at other airlines. I’ll bet anyone that my work rules will afford me a larger W2 than ANY of our legacy counterparts if they were using the same rate using their workrules. Point being, you don’t have to make Legacy rates to make Legacy W2 income.
Your 245 hr and “super work rule, until PBS” vs days off.
Your W2’s will be less than Delta’s about $75,000 in a year. You sell yourself and everybody else short when you vote yes.
11-16-2018, 02:32 AM
#3390
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: doggy style
Posts: 1,006
I honestly believe our MEC has our best interest at heart. That said, I also believe they’re either being misguided by ALPA attorneys who just want this done with or they have lost their will to fight. Either way it’s up to the pilots here to set them straight. I honestly don’t believe we will. I expect this turd to pass by at least 65%.
The MEC has a dual job. They are union workers and pilots and these negotiations have worn them down more than most. They want a deal - now. What else would you expect them to say if/when they get called about the current AIP - that it's NOT going to pass? That they did a poor job? Trusting their word is no better than trusting mine. I have a feeling this AIP will be voted down significantly. Why?
Because of the below scenarios:
There are 10 construction workers who all do the same job w/ comparable tools in the same work environment. Three construction workers make $100 /hr with great work rules and benefits. Another makes $95 /hr but has even BETTER work rules. Another 2 make about $90 /hr and have decent work rules. Another 3 make $85 / hr and have OK to somewhat bad benefits.
YOU make $55 /hr with decent benefits. During negotiations, your boss offers your $83 /hr but decreases your benefits to somewhat bad.
Also, EVERY OTHER construction worker will negotiate new rates in the future (within 3-5 years) before you do.
Do you take the offer? If so, why? If not, what is a fair wage and benefit package for you to accept?
Because of the below scenarios:
There are 10 construction workers who all do the same job w/ comparable tools in the same work environment. Three construction workers make $100 /hr with great work rules and benefits. Another makes $95 /hr but has even BETTER work rules. Another 2 make about $90 /hr and have decent work rules. Another 3 make $85 / hr and have OK to somewhat bad benefits.
YOU make $55 /hr with decent benefits. During negotiations, your boss offers your $83 /hr but decreases your benefits to somewhat bad.
Also, EVERY OTHER construction worker will negotiate new rates in the future (within 3-5 years) before you do.
Do you take the offer? If so, why? If not, what is a fair wage and benefit package for you to accept?
If you expected to get Delta pay, no PBS, and improved benefits with this contract.... welll I feel sorry for you and your delusional state of mind.
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