Frontier Negotiations Discussion
11-12-2018, 04:13 PM
#3251
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 290
You’re talking about at most a couple dozen people who make up less than one half of one percent of the total group. They need roughly 600 people to pass this subpar TA. Time to see what we’re made of.
11-12-2018, 05:12 PM
#3252
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 330
Why not put forward some real data and real numbers that would get you to a Yes Vote and sharing that with the group? I have yet to hear anything specific, from anyone. And all kidding and jabbing aside I think this would get you more support.
11-12-2018, 05:16 PM
#3253
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 23
Most people compare the top dollar value of two airlines to simplify a comparison. But...
The difference between AA's and United's first and last year captain pay is $20. The Frontier offer puts forth a $68 difference in 2023...
So this tells me that they gutted the pay for anyone hired after 2012 so that they could claim a higher max value for the 12year+ guys. And since the majority of pilots here are less than five years (more so over the life of the contract), Indigo is getting a massive discount at the pilot's expense.
Now, in addition to that, we stagger those pay raises over several years. We also stagger in direct contribution, too- a yes vote puts us initially at 75% of the DC of larger airlines.
Why are we yet again shouldering labor discounts for Indigo? They are already rewarded tens of millions of dollars for this lengthy process by not paying full retro.
My point is that whatever is motivating Indigo to get this done suddenly now will still exist in the spring. I've waited years for fair pay. I'm willing to wait a bit more because this is not the AIP I've been waiting for. We have the leverage finally- let's use it.
The difference between AA's and United's first and last year captain pay is $20. The Frontier offer puts forth a $68 difference in 2023...
So this tells me that they gutted the pay for anyone hired after 2012 so that they could claim a higher max value for the 12year+ guys. And since the majority of pilots here are less than five years (more so over the life of the contract), Indigo is getting a massive discount at the pilot's expense.
Now, in addition to that, we stagger those pay raises over several years. We also stagger in direct contribution, too- a yes vote puts us initially at 75% of the DC of larger airlines.
Why are we yet again shouldering labor discounts for Indigo? They are already rewarded tens of millions of dollars for this lengthy process by not paying full retro.
My point is that whatever is motivating Indigo to get this done suddenly now will still exist in the spring. I've waited years for fair pay. I'm willing to wait a bit more because this is not the AIP I've been waiting for. We have the leverage finally- let's use it.
11-12-2018, 05:41 PM
#3254
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 290
[QUOTE=butthert;2707310]Why not put forward some real data and real numbers that would get you to a Yes Vote and sharing that with the group? I have yet to hear anything specific, from anyone. And all kidding and jabbing aside I think this would get you more support.[/QUOTE
The same reason I don’t show the salesman how much money is in my pocket when I walk onto the lot to buy a car. These are public boards anyone can read, I have spoken with my reps privately and told them what it will take for me to vote yes.
I’m just curious why you think so little of yourself that you would be willing to accept less compensation than other airline pilots for the same work. If anything we work harder than everyone else considering the state of Frontier’s operation which is either dead last or next to last in nearly every metric. That is if you are even a pilot here, which I seriously doubt.
The same reason I don’t show the salesman how much money is in my pocket when I walk onto the lot to buy a car. These are public boards anyone can read, I have spoken with my reps privately and told them what it will take for me to vote yes.
I’m just curious why you think so little of yourself that you would be willing to accept less compensation than other airline pilots for the same work. If anything we work harder than everyone else considering the state of Frontier’s operation which is either dead last or next to last in nearly every metric. That is if you are even a pilot here, which I seriously doubt.
11-12-2018, 06:54 PM
#3255
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 191
Jet blue rates would be a good start...
11-12-2018, 06:54 PM
#3256
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,348
5 hour average FDP would only be worth a minimum of 5 times the number of duty periods (or 1:3.5 trip rig, whichever is greater).
5 straight minimum per duty period means each duty period is worth a minimum of 5 in and of itself.
For example...
Take a 4-day trip with 3 duty periods...
Day 1 = 3 hours of flying
Day 2 = Hotel appreciation
Day 3 = 8 hours of flying
Day 4 = 6 hours of flying
Rig aside, under an average duty period this trip will pay 17 hours (straight block basically).
If not average you’d still get 5 hours credit for day 1 even though you only work 3. That would pay 19 hours.
We don’t have an average calendar day but it we had a 5 hour average calendar day it would pay 20 hours.
5 straight minimum per duty period means each duty period is worth a minimum of 5 in and of itself.
For example...
Take a 4-day trip with 3 duty periods...
Day 1 = 3 hours of flying
Day 2 = Hotel appreciation
Day 3 = 8 hours of flying
Day 4 = 6 hours of flying
Rig aside, under an average duty period this trip will pay 17 hours (straight block basically).
If not average you’d still get 5 hours credit for day 1 even though you only work 3. That would pay 19 hours.
We don’t have an average calendar day but it we had a 5 hour average calendar day it would pay 20 hours.
11-12-2018, 06:55 PM
#3257
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 191
Most people compare the top dollar value of two airlines to simplify a comparison. But...
The difference between AA's and United's first and last year captain pay is $20. The Frontier offer puts forth a $68 difference in 2023...
So this tells me that they gutted the pay for anyone hired after 2012 so that they could claim a higher max value for the 12year+ guys. And since the majority of pilots here are less than five years (more so over the life of the contract), Indigo is getting a massive discount at the pilot's expense.
Now, in addition to that, we stagger those pay raises over several years. We also stagger in direct contribution, too- a yes vote puts us initially at 75% of the DC of larger airlines.
Why are we yet again shouldering labor discounts for Indigo? They are already rewarded tens of millions of dollars for this lengthy process by not paying full retro.
My point is that whatever is motivating Indigo to get this done suddenly now will still exist in the spring. I've waited years for fair pay. I'm willing to wait a bit more because this is not the AIP I've been waiting for. We have the leverage finally- let's use it.
The difference between AA's and United's first and last year captain pay is $20. The Frontier offer puts forth a $68 difference in 2023...
So this tells me that they gutted the pay for anyone hired after 2012 so that they could claim a higher max value for the 12year+ guys. And since the majority of pilots here are less than five years (more so over the life of the contract), Indigo is getting a massive discount at the pilot's expense.
Now, in addition to that, we stagger those pay raises over several years. We also stagger in direct contribution, too- a yes vote puts us initially at 75% of the DC of larger airlines.
Why are we yet again shouldering labor discounts for Indigo? They are already rewarded tens of millions of dollars for this lengthy process by not paying full retro.
My point is that whatever is motivating Indigo to get this done suddenly now will still exist in the spring. I've waited years for fair pay. I'm willing to wait a bit more because this is not the AIP I've been waiting for. We have the leverage finally- let's use it.
11-12-2018, 08:54 PM
#3258
Slave
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: Hot tub
Posts: 1,411
I would seriously consider this AIP if just the dates were changed.....
CHANGE
DOS.......TO.......3/1/16
3/2/19....TO.......1/1/17
3/2/20....TO.......1/1/18
3/2/21....TO.......1/1/19
3/2/22....TO.......1/1/20
3/2/23....TO.......1/1/21
And the signing bonus stays as is...
Simple
CHANGE
DOS.......TO.......3/1/16
3/2/19....TO.......1/1/17
3/2/20....TO.......1/1/18
3/2/21....TO.......1/1/19
3/2/22....TO.......1/1/20
3/2/23....TO.......1/1/21
And the signing bonus stays as is...
Simple
11-12-2018, 09:31 PM
#3259
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 550
I would seriously consider this AIP if just the dates were changed.....
CHANGE
DOS.......TO.......3/1/16
3/2/19....TO.......1/1/17
3/2/20....TO.......1/1/18
3/2/21....TO.......1/1/19
3/2/22....TO.......1/1/20
3/2/23....TO.......1/1/21
And the signing bonus stays as is...
Simple
CHANGE
DOS.......TO.......3/1/16
3/2/19....TO.......1/1/17
3/2/20....TO.......1/1/18
3/2/21....TO.......1/1/19
3/2/22....TO.......1/1/20
3/2/23....TO.......1/1/21
And the signing bonus stays as is...
Simple
11-12-2018, 10:45 PM
#3260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 318
I’m letting my wife vote for me. Is...is that frowned upon? Cuz if it’s a yes vote, I can be like “guys, c’mon, it was the boss’ orders”. But if it’s a no vote, I can be like “YEAHHHH, unity....and such”.
Then, like, when we’re in the cockpit, and you’re showing me your screenshot of you voting no, and your three lanyards, I can be all “bro, the lady has my login, you understand, right? Will you still respect me?”
In the end, it doesn’t even matter how I vote, cuz, like, I’m just proud to be part of the the Special Olympics new winter Sport inclusion: Airline Pilot TA voting. There are no losers, just those that participated.
“I dunno Jon, ReserveCA is favored to win this years gold in No Voting. But Mugatu, PulledBreaker, and V1Mcdoucherson have upped their game in 2018, I really think it’s a toss-up. But on the yes-vote, Motorboatin and the other 1247 Frontier Pilots might just be able to stack the “D” and hold the rest of the “No’s” at bay”.
Hey, you’re all winners, and you all deserve participation trophies. Especially the multiple-lanyard folk. Best of luck.
Then, like, when we’re in the cockpit, and you’re showing me your screenshot of you voting no, and your three lanyards, I can be all “bro, the lady has my login, you understand, right? Will you still respect me?”
In the end, it doesn’t even matter how I vote, cuz, like, I’m just proud to be part of the the Special Olympics new winter Sport inclusion: Airline Pilot TA voting. There are no losers, just those that participated.
“I dunno Jon, ReserveCA is favored to win this years gold in No Voting. But Mugatu, PulledBreaker, and V1Mcdoucherson have upped their game in 2018, I really think it’s a toss-up. But on the yes-vote, Motorboatin and the other 1247 Frontier Pilots might just be able to stack the “D” and hold the rest of the “No’s” at bay”.
Hey, you’re all winners, and you all deserve participation trophies. Especially the multiple-lanyard folk. Best of luck.
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