Frontier Negotiations Discussion
11-12-2018, 03:38 AM
#3211
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 131
It took Delta and Southwest a year to ratify a new TA after they rejected the first one. It took Spirit 6 months to sweeten their offer before they could ratify a contract and they never voted on the first offer. It seems like it always takes longer if it goes to a ratification vote. So realistically, we're looking at 6-12 months for a new deal.
Voting this down would kinda a blessing in disguise for management. I don't think they will be able to staff for their expansion and attrition in a couple years if this contract were to pass.
So interestingly enough voting this down does management a favor in the long run.
11-12-2018, 04:16 AM
#3213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 550
Indigo has a very near term exit strategy.
An IPO is obviously coming in 2019, and if we were to vote it down we'd disrupt that timeline. They have FAPA invest that needs to be paid in 14 months. They have the FAs CBA that needs to be completed prior to an IPO. They have concluded contracts with 5 other labor groups in the past 12 months, and the only ones left are us and the FAs
They have underwriters telling them that they need accurate labor cost projections for the SEC. Remember when we all said management would only pay us when they absolutely had to? That time has come. We have more leverage now than we've ever had. It's not about pilot new hire headcount, that could be temporarily fixed with them paying for hotels. This is about the IPO.
And yet we still have guys who are willing to sell out their industry, for a substandard raise and a tiny little bonus. The company thinks they've worn us down into submission. And maybe for some, they are right. You weaklings can capitulate. We will always know who you are.
But I along with MANY others know our value. We aren't going to lay down and accept what an investment firm thinks we are worth.
An IPO is obviously coming in 2019, and if we were to vote it down we'd disrupt that timeline. They have FAPA invest that needs to be paid in 14 months. They have the FAs CBA that needs to be completed prior to an IPO. They have concluded contracts with 5 other labor groups in the past 12 months, and the only ones left are us and the FAs
They have underwriters telling them that they need accurate labor cost projections for the SEC. Remember when we all said management would only pay us when they absolutely had to? That time has come. We have more leverage now than we've ever had. It's not about pilot new hire headcount, that could be temporarily fixed with them paying for hotels. This is about the IPO.
And yet we still have guys who are willing to sell out their industry, for a substandard raise and a tiny little bonus. The company thinks they've worn us down into submission. And maybe for some, they are right. You weaklings can capitulate. We will always know who you are.
But I along with MANY others know our value. We aren't going to lay down and accept what an investment firm thinks we are worth.
11-12-2018, 06:13 AM
#3215
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 25
What issues does the life insurance have? Are you saying we should not sign up for additional coverage or spouse coverage?
11-12-2018, 06:43 AM
#3216
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 109
There are two issues with employer sponsored life insurance plans:
The first being is that it is often more expensive than what you can find on the open market. The plans also are capped well below what an average head of household would need for basic life insurance coverage, as is the case with ours.
The second point to consider is that you need to remain employed by said employer. If you lose your job or quit, you lose the life insurance. That may not seem like a huge deal, but it’s much better to lock in a low price on the open market with a term life policy while you are young and healthy rather than searching one at age fifty.
A great place to read more is ClarkHoward.com or pick up a kiplinger guide to personal finance.
The first being is that it is often more expensive than what you can find on the open market. The plans also are capped well below what an average head of household would need for basic life insurance coverage, as is the case with ours.
The second point to consider is that you need to remain employed by said employer. If you lose your job or quit, you lose the life insurance. That may not seem like a huge deal, but it’s much better to lock in a low price on the open market with a term life policy while you are young and healthy rather than searching one at age fifty.
A great place to read more is ClarkHoward.com or pick up a kiplinger guide to personal finance.
11-12-2018, 07:50 AM
#3218
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 461
Agreement In Principle Reached with Company
Fellow Frontier ALPA pilots,
We are pleased to announce that ALPA has reached an Agreement in Principle (AIP) with Frontier Airlines. This step toward a new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) is overdue but very positive news for Frontier pilots, and an outline of key changes is included below.
While a large part of language writing was completed at the time contract sections were negotiated, the Negotiating Committee continues to finalize all remaining language in preparation for consideration of the agreement by the full MEC. That meeting is currently scheduled for November 27-28. The Master Executive Council (MEC) will review the substance and language of the agreement in detail and determine whether the proposed collective bargaining agreement constitutes a Tentative Agreement that is suitable to send to you for membership ratification.
If the MEC approves the agreement and authorizes membership ratification, the full language agreement will be forwarded to you for review. We will schedule a series of all-pilot conference calls and/or webinars, as well as face-to-face meetings in each domicile to brief you and answer your questions. There will be ample time for you to review these materials and get your questions answered before voting opens. We are committed to our union's democratic process and intend to have an in-depth conversation with Frontier pilots about our contract and our future before asking you to vote.
Between now and the release of full TA language and supporting information, you are likely to hear many rumors and much speculation about the terms or impact of the new agreement. Some of this speculation has already begun on social media. While we know some of this is inevitable, we encourage you to wait for solid information presented by the MEC and/or Negotiating Committee so that this important conversation about our contract and our future is based on accurate information.
A summary of key aspects of the AIP is set out below.
Ratification Bonus - $75 million will be paid to Frontier pilots within 30 days of contract ratification. The amount paid to each pilot will be allocated fairly in accordance with the ALPA Policy for lump-sum distributions. The methodology used to allocate the lump sum will be fully explained as part of the TA materials.
Enhanced Features – Deadhead will be paid at 100% instead of 50%, and the Trip Rig will improve to 3.5:1 instead of 3.75:1. A minimum duty period credit of 5 hours has been established.
Retirement – The Company will make specified contributions for retirement, regardless of any pilot deferrals. Contributions will increase to 15% of compensation over the life of the CBA, including paying out cash to the pilot after IRS limits have been reached (12% at DOS; 13% on 3/2/20; 14% on 3/2/21; and 15% on 3/2/22).
Hotels - Frontier will provide "long stay" hotels for layovers of 18 hours or more (at least 20 per year until all 18-hour layovers are covered by mid-2021).
Duration - the new contract includes a 5-year term but ALPA has the option to open negotiations 6 months early.
Pay Tables:
Incentive Pay - continues at 125% for credit hours over 82.
Work Rules - no changes to the DDL/DAG limits; VJA and JA will be replaced with a Premium Folder that pays a minimum of 150%; greater role for ALPA in developing pairing solutions; and vacation does not change until PBS implementation.
Reserves - will be entitled to add flying on days off (with all pay credit over guarantee); can access premium reserve days that will pay a minimum of 4 hours over guarantee; and will be offered more choices with respect to the composition of the reserve lines, among other things.
PBS - We have agreed to a PBS process that protects and enhances our unique work rule package. It includes the requirement for mutual agreement or arbitration of implementation issues; industry-leading vacation day value of 5 hours and the ability to slide vacations; sufficient open time guarantees; ALPA control of line construction; no downgrades as a result of PBS; and an expedited dispute resolution process that requires the arbitrator to give special consideration to the rule set at Delta, Hawaiian, JetBlue and Spirit, which are the other mainline carriers that are using the same NavBlue PBS vendor.
This AIP would not have been possible without your work, resolve and unity. The new contract achieves our goal of market-based pay and retirement, improved health and LTD benefits, substantial ratification bonus payments, and retains the value of unique scheduling and vacation provisions. There are other changes to the CBA that we look forward to explaining, along with answering your questions, but these details give you a balanced picture of our new agreement.
Fellow Frontier ALPA pilots,
We are pleased to announce that ALPA has reached an Agreement in Principle (AIP) with Frontier Airlines. This step toward a new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) is overdue but very positive news for Frontier pilots, and an outline of key changes is included below.
While a large part of language writing was completed at the time contract sections were negotiated, the Negotiating Committee continues to finalize all remaining language in preparation for consideration of the agreement by the full MEC. That meeting is currently scheduled for November 27-28. The Master Executive Council (MEC) will review the substance and language of the agreement in detail and determine whether the proposed collective bargaining agreement constitutes a Tentative Agreement that is suitable to send to you for membership ratification.
If the MEC approves the agreement and authorizes membership ratification, the full language agreement will be forwarded to you for review. We will schedule a series of all-pilot conference calls and/or webinars, as well as face-to-face meetings in each domicile to brief you and answer your questions. There will be ample time for you to review these materials and get your questions answered before voting opens. We are committed to our union's democratic process and intend to have an in-depth conversation with Frontier pilots about our contract and our future before asking you to vote.
Between now and the release of full TA language and supporting information, you are likely to hear many rumors and much speculation about the terms or impact of the new agreement. Some of this speculation has already begun on social media. While we know some of this is inevitable, we encourage you to wait for solid information presented by the MEC and/or Negotiating Committee so that this important conversation about our contract and our future is based on accurate information.
A summary of key aspects of the AIP is set out below.
Ratification Bonus - $75 million will be paid to Frontier pilots within 30 days of contract ratification. The amount paid to each pilot will be allocated fairly in accordance with the ALPA Policy for lump-sum distributions. The methodology used to allocate the lump sum will be fully explained as part of the TA materials.
Enhanced Features – Deadhead will be paid at 100% instead of 50%, and the Trip Rig will improve to 3.5:1 instead of 3.75:1. A minimum duty period credit of 5 hours has been established.
Retirement – The Company will make specified contributions for retirement, regardless of any pilot deferrals. Contributions will increase to 15% of compensation over the life of the CBA, including paying out cash to the pilot after IRS limits have been reached (12% at DOS; 13% on 3/2/20; 14% on 3/2/21; and 15% on 3/2/22).
Hotels - Frontier will provide "long stay" hotels for layovers of 18 hours or more (at least 20 per year until all 18-hour layovers are covered by mid-2021).
Duration - the new contract includes a 5-year term but ALPA has the option to open negotiations 6 months early.
Pay Tables:
Incentive Pay - continues at 125% for credit hours over 82.
Work Rules - no changes to the DDL/DAG limits; VJA and JA will be replaced with a Premium Folder that pays a minimum of 150%; greater role for ALPA in developing pairing solutions; and vacation does not change until PBS implementation.
Reserves - will be entitled to add flying on days off (with all pay credit over guarantee); can access premium reserve days that will pay a minimum of 4 hours over guarantee; and will be offered more choices with respect to the composition of the reserve lines, among other things.
PBS - We have agreed to a PBS process that protects and enhances our unique work rule package. It includes the requirement for mutual agreement or arbitration of implementation issues; industry-leading vacation day value of 5 hours and the ability to slide vacations; sufficient open time guarantees; ALPA control of line construction; no downgrades as a result of PBS; and an expedited dispute resolution process that requires the arbitrator to give special consideration to the rule set at Delta, Hawaiian, JetBlue and Spirit, which are the other mainline carriers that are using the same NavBlue PBS vendor.
This AIP would not have been possible without your work, resolve and unity. The new contract achieves our goal of market-based pay and retirement, improved health and LTD benefits, substantial ratification bonus payments, and retains the value of unique scheduling and vacation provisions. There are other changes to the CBA that we look forward to explaining, along with answering your questions, but these details give you a balanced picture of our new agreement.
11-12-2018, 09:05 AM
#3219
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 453
Sorry if this has already been covered.
•What's the plan for sick time under the new TA? Anyone hear anything? Staying at 1 day per month?
•How about the 5 hour min duty period. Is that average for the trip, or every duty period regardless?
•Aggressive reserve? Window specific now?
I know it's too early to have real answers to these questions, but some of you are well connected. So worth a try.
•What's the plan for sick time under the new TA? Anyone hear anything? Staying at 1 day per month?
•How about the 5 hour min duty period. Is that average for the trip, or every duty period regardless?
•Aggressive reserve? Window specific now?
I know it's too early to have real answers to these questions, but some of you are well connected. So worth a try.
11-12-2018, 09:22 AM
#3220
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,490
Sorry if this has already been covered.
•What's the plan for sick time under the new TA? Anyone hear anything? Staying at 1 day per month?
•How about the 5 hour min duty period. Is that average for the trip, or every duty period regardless?
•Aggressive reserve? Window specific now?
I know it's too early to have real answers to these questions, but some of you are well connected. So worth a try.
•What's the plan for sick time under the new TA? Anyone hear anything? Staying at 1 day per month?
•How about the 5 hour min duty period. Is that average for the trip, or every duty period regardless?
•Aggressive reserve? Window specific now?
I know it's too early to have real answers to these questions, but some of you are well connected. So worth a try.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
