Frontier Negotiations Discussion
11-11-2018, 03:04 PM
#3191
Slave
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: Hot tub
Posts: 1,411
Great post. We need to vote this thing in and be done with Indigo. Whether it is a merger or an IPO.. The sooner the better.
What do we hope to achieve by dragging this thing out? The new hire flood gate is now open since the NC released the details. Vote Yes take your cash and then leave if you think we are still at the bottom.
What do we hope to achieve by dragging this thing out? The new hire flood gate is now open since the NC released the details. Vote Yes take your cash and then leave if you think we are still at the bottom.
vote it down...Fly the contract
11-11-2018, 03:11 PM
#3192
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Bus CA
Posts: 660
I was recently in the school house and had an opportunity to chat with some guys who work there. They told me that the number of new pilot applicants has gone through the roof starting the day after the first framework email came out.
I'm assuming that since the AIP details are out, the number of new applicants is closer to a flood. As we know, they successfully filled the November class and that was before we even had a framework agreement. I have no doubt that they will fill classes now.
I'm afraid our leverage is gone now. We all know that the ONLY reason the company came to the table was for hiring purposes. At this point, I'm scared that our leverage is totally gone, and its important to understand that. The situation is totally different now than it was a month ago.
Please do not take what I'm saying as arguing for a Yes vote. I am unhappy with this TA. I believe that we could have and should have done better. We really should have beat Spirits contact handily, and we have not. My concern is that if we vote this down, and our leverage is gone, the company just isn't going to move. At least not for a long time. The amount of time it will take until the company can't fill classes again will be lengthy. I'm assuming they got hundreds of fresh applicants in the past week.
That being said, it may very well be worth the wait. I don't know. I'm not going to pretend to know how long it would take to reach a TA2. But I think it will take until classes thin out again.
In some ways I feel like Indigo (or Biffle) totally out smarted us. They treated us like garbage, profited off our backs until they absolutely couldn't hire. Then they got our NC to reach a sub par TA. And in doing so, they instantly fixed their problems. Classes are full now. Our leverage is gone and they won.
These guys seriously suck at running a reliable airline, but they kick ass at making money. They secured the largest airbus order of all time, and with it locked in the cheapest price ever paid for new Airbii. And now they are going to lock us into a bottom of the industry pay for the next 7 to 8 years.
Indigo/Biffle might just be much smarter than we usually give them credit for.
I'm assuming that since the AIP details are out, the number of new applicants is closer to a flood. As we know, they successfully filled the November class and that was before we even had a framework agreement. I have no doubt that they will fill classes now.
I'm afraid our leverage is gone now. We all know that the ONLY reason the company came to the table was for hiring purposes. At this point, I'm scared that our leverage is totally gone, and its important to understand that. The situation is totally different now than it was a month ago.
Please do not take what I'm saying as arguing for a Yes vote. I am unhappy with this TA. I believe that we could have and should have done better. We really should have beat Spirits contact handily, and we have not. My concern is that if we vote this down, and our leverage is gone, the company just isn't going to move. At least not for a long time. The amount of time it will take until the company can't fill classes again will be lengthy. I'm assuming they got hundreds of fresh applicants in the past week.
That being said, it may very well be worth the wait. I don't know. I'm not going to pretend to know how long it would take to reach a TA2. But I think it will take until classes thin out again.
In some ways I feel like Indigo (or Biffle) totally out smarted us. They treated us like garbage, profited off our backs until they absolutely couldn't hire. Then they got our NC to reach a sub par TA. And in doing so, they instantly fixed their problems. Classes are full now. Our leverage is gone and they won.
These guys seriously suck at running a reliable airline, but they kick ass at making money. They secured the largest airbus order of all time, and with it locked in the cheapest price ever paid for new Airbii. And now they are going to lock us into a bottom of the industry pay for the next 7 to 8 years.
Indigo/Biffle might just be much smarter than we usually give them credit for.
And personally, I’d be happy to disappoint every single pilot that just applied to Frontier before we even had an AIP. The applications may be there now but the actual amount of people who will show to an interview or class will dry up almost just as fast if we vote down a TA.
11-11-2018, 03:15 PM
#3193
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,490
Geezus man, pull yourself together. Don’t raise the white flag yet. .....
And personally, I’d be happy to disappoint every single pilot that just applied to Frontier before we even had an AIP. The applications may be there now but the actual amount of people who will show to an interview or class will dry up almost just as fast if we vote down a TA.
And personally, I’d be happy to disappoint every single pilot that just applied to Frontier before we even had an AIP. The applications may be there now but the actual amount of people who will show to an interview or class will dry up almost just as fast if we vote down a TA.
11-11-2018, 04:36 PM
#3194
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
Great post. We need to vote this thing in and be done with Indigo. Whether it is a merger or an IPO.. The sooner the better.
What do we hope to achieve by dragging this thing out? The new hire flood gate is now open since the NC released the details. Vote Yes take your cash and then leave if you think we are still at the bottom.
What do we hope to achieve by dragging this thing out? The new hire flood gate is now open since the NC released the details. Vote Yes take your cash and then leave if you think we are still at the bottom.
11-11-2018, 04:56 PM
#3195
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 131
I was recently in the school house and had an opportunity to chat with some guys who work there. They told me that the number of new pilot applicants has gone through the roof starting the day after the first framework email came out.
I'm assuming that since the AIP details are out, the number of new applicants is closer to a flood. As we know, they successfully filled the November class and that was before we even had a framework agreement. I have no doubt that they will fill classes now.
I'm afraid our leverage is gone now.
These guys seriously suck at running a reliable airline, but they kick ass at making money. They secured the largest airbus order of all time, and with it locked in the cheapest price ever paid for new Airbii. And now they are going to lock us into a bottom of the industry pay for the next 7 to 8 years.
Indigo/Biffle might just be much smarter than we usually give them credit for.
I'm assuming that since the AIP details are out, the number of new applicants is closer to a flood. As we know, they successfully filled the November class and that was before we even had a framework agreement. I have no doubt that they will fill classes now.
I'm afraid our leverage is gone now.
These guys seriously suck at running a reliable airline, but they kick ass at making money. They secured the largest airbus order of all time, and with it locked in the cheapest price ever paid for new Airbii. And now they are going to lock us into a bottom of the industry pay for the next 7 to 8 years.
Indigo/Biffle might just be much smarter than we usually give them credit for.
With that being said if you guys vote it down watch how many show up at the current rates. Very few.
Best case long term is MEC passes, pilots vote it down 90% and recall reps. This will take time and bleed them more.
I think if your MEC votes it down they will tweak it a tad but it won't be much better but will pass and leave many people upset.
You guys are in the drivers seat. Your reps just got played like a fiddle.
Another thing to remember is very very very few "yes" voters will admit they will vote yes. That will not be smart for them. But they are there and they are the guys that benefit the most. Like the 12 plus year guys. Even though they are saying no with their mouth there ballot will say yes. The management knows it that's why they targeted them. Old guys at the over 12 year mark just want the money now. Young guys want the money now (at the 3 year FO mark) and at the 12 year captain mark but all they need is 51%.
Netjets did the same thing in their last contract. They screwed themselves because now they can't get and keep FO's so they are having to renegotiate before the contract ran it's course which is tough from the companies side because the union is in the drivers seat.
Ironically Frontier will put itself in the same boat as this contract in it's current form may work good enough today two years from now they would come back trying to give raises.
Last edited by billsaw; 11-11-2018 at 05:08 PM.
11-11-2018, 05:09 PM
#3196
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,348
Im going to try and breakdown the pro's and cons of our LTD vs. NK because there seems to be some misunderstanding. If I miss something or get something wrong someone fell free to correct with FACTS and not emotion please. Ours is 8000 theirs 5000 grand. Pro's to NK vs ours. Own occupation, ability to buy up to 15,000 through the company. Pro's to our deal, 8000 is substantially higher, and ability to change taxable during open enrollment or life changing event. To me thats a pretty nice loophole for us with no downside. If I know that Im having major surgery (knee replacement for example) Im potentially putting it off a few months and changing my benefit in nov. I don't think NK can do this but Im not 100% on that?
A few misunderstanding with NK structure. You can't buy up to 15 unless its 60% of your W2 (the benefit is 180 grand at 15). That means 300 grand. Unless your flying a ton thats pretty much top captains. So in reality I would be surprised if there were more than 100 pilots at 15 grand.
for me it's about $30 per month for the buy-up....
A few misunderstandings about our LTD. You can buy own occupation up to 15 grand on the open market so in theory your buy up cost will be higher than NK (their cost is lower due to being in a pool) but your buying up only 7 compared to their 10. I have to believe thats close to a wash.
After having conversations with more than one of our pilots that have been on LTD for years their not concerned at all of getting kicked off. However, A few thing do happen at the two year mark. First, Hartford makes you apply for ss disability. If your eligible for that it comes out of the 8 grand and in the end you still get 8 grand. Second they do a stress test. If they believe you can make 60% of your current salary based on guarantee and pay rate they can kick you off. Having said that this hasn't happened yet and that 60% number will be substantially higher.
In the end I have no issues at all with LTD after they fixed the taxability of it. Were arguing over dollars that can be fixed on the open market. Personally ill do 8 grand, keep it tax free and not buy up.
A few misunderstanding with NK structure. You can't buy up to 15 unless its 60% of your W2 (the benefit is 180 grand at 15). That means 300 grand. Unless your flying a ton thats pretty much top captains. So in reality I would be surprised if there were more than 100 pilots at 15 grand.
for me it's about $30 per month for the buy-up....
A few misunderstandings about our LTD. You can buy own occupation up to 15 grand on the open market so in theory your buy up cost will be higher than NK (their cost is lower due to being in a pool) but your buying up only 7 compared to their 10. I have to believe thats close to a wash.
After having conversations with more than one of our pilots that have been on LTD for years their not concerned at all of getting kicked off. However, A few thing do happen at the two year mark. First, Hartford makes you apply for ss disability. If your eligible for that it comes out of the 8 grand and in the end you still get 8 grand. Second they do a stress test. If they believe you can make 60% of your current salary based on guarantee and pay rate they can kick you off. Having said that this hasn't happened yet and that 60% number will be substantially higher.
In the end I have no issues at all with LTD after they fixed the taxability of it. Were arguing over dollars that can be fixed on the open market. Personally ill do 8 grand, keep it tax free and not buy up.
first 5K free by the company, on top of that you can buy up to 15K/60% of your W2 taxable income. To get the full 15K, you need to make 15K/0.6= 25K/month so 300K per year. I am a 5 year captain, don't do overtime, I had 2 months of STD (so no income), and I dropped 2.5 months for family time, and I am up to 182K with 2 months to go. I think there is at least 800 out of 2100 who get over 200K in earnings, and probably 400+ who will get the 300K.
This is an own occupation, after tax benefit.
11-11-2018, 05:43 PM
#3197
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 461
Actually it appears your union reps are just plain stupid. It was your own union that let this out.
With that being said if you guys vote it down watch how many show up at the current rates. Very few.
Best case long term is MEC passes, pilots vote it down 90% and recall reps. This will take time and bleed them more.
I think if your MEC votes it down they will tweak it a tad but it won't be much better but will pass and leave many people upset.
You guys are in the drivers seat. Your reps just got played like a fiddle.
Another thing to remember is very very very few "yes" voters will admit they will vote yes. That will not be smart for them. But they are there and they are the guys that benefit the most. Like the 12 plus year guys. Even though they are saying no with their mouth there ballot will say yes. The management knows it that's why they targeted them. Old guys at the over 12 year mark just want the money now. Young guys want the money now (at the 3 year FO mark) and at the 12 year captain mark but all they need is 51%.
Netjets did the same thing in their last contract. They screwed themselves because now they can't get and keep FO's so they are having to renegotiate before the contract ran it's course which is tough from the companies side because the union is in the drivers seat.
Ironically Frontier will put itself in the same boat as this contract in it's current form may work good enough today two years from now they would come back trying to give raises.
With that being said if you guys vote it down watch how many show up at the current rates. Very few.
Best case long term is MEC passes, pilots vote it down 90% and recall reps. This will take time and bleed them more.
I think if your MEC votes it down they will tweak it a tad but it won't be much better but will pass and leave many people upset.
You guys are in the drivers seat. Your reps just got played like a fiddle.
Another thing to remember is very very very few "yes" voters will admit they will vote yes. That will not be smart for them. But they are there and they are the guys that benefit the most. Like the 12 plus year guys. Even though they are saying no with their mouth there ballot will say yes. The management knows it that's why they targeted them. Old guys at the over 12 year mark just want the money now. Young guys want the money now (at the 3 year FO mark) and at the 12 year captain mark but all they need is 51%.
Netjets did the same thing in their last contract. They screwed themselves because now they can't get and keep FO's so they are having to renegotiate before the contract ran it's course which is tough from the companies side because the union is in the drivers seat.
Ironically Frontier will put itself in the same boat as this contract in it's current form may work good enough today two years from now they would come back trying to give raises.
My quick look shows:
1121 eligible voters.
534 in/close to top of scale.
A handfull at 9 year CA pay.
578 pilots at 7 year CA pay or less.
Jetblue 7 year CA pay with DC is 279 at DOS.
Frontier 7 year CA pay with DC is 239, 3 months after DOS (whatever tf that's about...)
That's not good enough.
Yeah, we're gonna go ahead and vote this one down, get significantly closer to Jetblue rates, and increase our DC at DOS while leaving our unique scheduling abilities intact.
While the devil is in the details, the rate (and therefore min guarantee, for me) is still the constant by which all other computations are derived. They're just too low.
11-11-2018, 05:59 PM
#3198
Slave
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: Hot tub
Posts: 1,411
you're wrong about me so i hope there's a chance you're wrong about them too. Top of scale numbers at f9 are around 48% of the voters and then there's a fairly steep decline in longevity where the pay rates are just too low for the rest of the aip.
My quick look shows:
1121 eligible voters.
534 in/close to top of scale.
A handfull at 9 year ca pay.
578 pilots at 7 year ca pay or less.
Jetblue 7 year ca pay with dc is 279 at dos.
Frontier 7 year ca pay with dc is 239, 3 months after dos (whatever tf that's about...)
that's not good enough.
Yeah, we're gonna go ahead and vote this one down, get significantly closer to jetblue rates, and increase our dc at dos while leaving our unique scheduling abilities intact.
While the devil is in the details, the rate (and therefore min guarantee, for me) is still the constant by which all other computations are derived. They're just too low.
My quick look shows:
1121 eligible voters.
534 in/close to top of scale.
A handfull at 9 year ca pay.
578 pilots at 7 year ca pay or less.
Jetblue 7 year ca pay with dc is 279 at dos.
Frontier 7 year ca pay with dc is 239, 3 months after dos (whatever tf that's about...)
that's not good enough.
Yeah, we're gonna go ahead and vote this one down, get significantly closer to jetblue rates, and increase our dc at dos while leaving our unique scheduling abilities intact.
While the devil is in the details, the rate (and therefore min guarantee, for me) is still the constant by which all other computations are derived. They're just too low.
11-11-2018, 06:04 PM
#3199
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 1
First time post - NO VOTE - Here's why:
Year--Frontier---SPIRIT-----% of Pay
2-----$107.58---$104.00---103.44%
3-----$115.56---$112.00---103.18%
4-----$122.10---$119.00---102.61%
5-----$129.53---$126.00---102.80%
6-----$134.88---$131.00---102.96%
7-----$141.04---$137.00---102.95%
8-----$145.26---$141.00---103.02%
9-----$151.12---$147.00---102.80%
10----$154.88---$150.00---103.25%
11----$158.64---$154.00---103.01%
12----$162.40---$158.00---102.78%
Avg---$138.45---$134.45---102.98%
Equal when 2% A321 override is added, they were TRO'd, can't settle for tied for last, their DC is about the same
Year---Frontier---JETBLUE---% of Pay
2-----$107.58 ---$117.00---91.95%
3-----$115.56 ---$137.00 ---84.35%
4-----$122.10 ---$148.00 ---82.50%
5-----$129.53 ---$152.00 ---85.22%
6-----$134.88 ---$153.00 ---88.16%
7-----$141.04 ---$156.00 ---90.41%
8-----$145.26 ---$159.00 ---91.36%
9-----$151.12 ---$162.00 ---93.28%
10----$154.88 ---$167.00 ---92.74%
11----$158.64 ---$169.00 ---93.87%
12----$162.40---$173.00 ---93.87%
Avg---$138.45---$153.91 ---89.79%
Latest contract - must be more in line with JB
(Pay only, not Redeye/International pay, Profit Sharing, 15% DC)
Year---Frontier---Virgin/Alaska--% of Pay
2-----$107.58 ---$122.00 ------88.18%
3-----$115.56 ---$134.00 ------86.24%
4-----$122.10 ---$144.00 ------84.79%
5-----$129.53 ---$147.00 ------88.12%
6-----$134.88 ---$149.00 ------90.52%
7-----$141.04 ---$151.00 ------93.40%
8-----$145.26 ---$154.00 ------94.32%
9-----$151.12 ---$158.00 ------95.65%
10----$154.88 ---$162.00 ------95.60%
11----$158.64 ---$164.00 ------96.73%
12----$162.40 ---$168.00 ------96.67%
Avg---$138.45 ---$150.27------91.84%
Older Arbitrated rates - not current market, but still better than what's on the table for F9, plus 15.5% DC and profit sharing.
Year---Frontier---Southwest----% of Pay
2-----$107.58 ---$118.00 ------91.17%
3-----$115.56 ---$132.00 ------87.55%
4-----$122.10 ---$145.00 ------84.21%
5-----$129.53 ---$159.00 ------81.47%
6-----$134.88 ---$166.00 ------81.25%
7-----$141.04 ---$171.00 ------82.48%
8-----$145.26 ---$175.00 ------83.01%
9-----$151.12 ---$177.00 ------85.38%
10----$154.88 ---$182.00 ------85.10%
11----$158.64 ---$184.00 ------86.22%
12----$162.40 ---$186.00 ------87.31%
Avg---$138.45---$163.18 ------85.01%
Solid rates, not sure when they become amendable with 15% DC and profit sharing
Monthly/Annual breakdown by year for eligible voter and shortfalls based on Spirit, JetBlue, Alaska/Virgin and Southwest FO rates:
Average----------Below Avg--Monthly Loss---Annual Loss
2- $115.25 ------$(7.67)-----$(575.25)------$(6,903.00)
3- $128.75 ------$(13.19)----$(989.25)------$(11,871.00)
4- $139.00 ------$(16.90)----$(1,267.50)----$(15,210.00)
5- $146.00 ------$(16.47)----$(1,235.25)----$(14,823.00)
6- $149.75 ------$(14.87)----$(1,115.25)----$(13,383.00)
7- $153.75 ------$(12.71)----$(953.25)------$(11,439.00)
8- $157.25 ------$(11.99)----$(899.25)------$(10,791.00)
9- $161.00 ------$(9.88)-----$(741.00)-------$(8,892.00)
10-$165.25 ------$(10.37)---$(777.75)-------$(9,333.00)
11-$167.75 ------$(9.11)-----$(683.25)-------$(8,199.00)
12-$171.25 ------$(8.85)----$(663.75)--------$(7,965.00)
AVG $150.45 ----$(12.00)--- $(900.07)-------$(10,800.82)
My vote in more involved than just hourly rates. Retirement is huge too. I haven't even seen the rest of the rules/conditions in the Framework agreement, but the bullets seem fairly standard. I am unwilling to accept a Spirit contract, no offense intended, when the conditions have never been better and we participate in pattern bargaining. This will have a negative effect on all other carriers when they open for their next CBA. I don't mind being average, but refuse to be the lowest common denominator.
It's business, not personal....The math doesn't lie - NO.
Year--Frontier---SPIRIT-----% of Pay
2-----$107.58---$104.00---103.44%
3-----$115.56---$112.00---103.18%
4-----$122.10---$119.00---102.61%
5-----$129.53---$126.00---102.80%
6-----$134.88---$131.00---102.96%
7-----$141.04---$137.00---102.95%
8-----$145.26---$141.00---103.02%
9-----$151.12---$147.00---102.80%
10----$154.88---$150.00---103.25%
11----$158.64---$154.00---103.01%
12----$162.40---$158.00---102.78%
Avg---$138.45---$134.45---102.98%
Equal when 2% A321 override is added, they were TRO'd, can't settle for tied for last, their DC is about the same
Year---Frontier---JETBLUE---% of Pay
2-----$107.58 ---$117.00---91.95%
3-----$115.56 ---$137.00 ---84.35%
4-----$122.10 ---$148.00 ---82.50%
5-----$129.53 ---$152.00 ---85.22%
6-----$134.88 ---$153.00 ---88.16%
7-----$141.04 ---$156.00 ---90.41%
8-----$145.26 ---$159.00 ---91.36%
9-----$151.12 ---$162.00 ---93.28%
10----$154.88 ---$167.00 ---92.74%
11----$158.64 ---$169.00 ---93.87%
12----$162.40---$173.00 ---93.87%
Avg---$138.45---$153.91 ---89.79%
Latest contract - must be more in line with JB
(Pay only, not Redeye/International pay, Profit Sharing, 15% DC)
Year---Frontier---Virgin/Alaska--% of Pay
2-----$107.58 ---$122.00 ------88.18%
3-----$115.56 ---$134.00 ------86.24%
4-----$122.10 ---$144.00 ------84.79%
5-----$129.53 ---$147.00 ------88.12%
6-----$134.88 ---$149.00 ------90.52%
7-----$141.04 ---$151.00 ------93.40%
8-----$145.26 ---$154.00 ------94.32%
9-----$151.12 ---$158.00 ------95.65%
10----$154.88 ---$162.00 ------95.60%
11----$158.64 ---$164.00 ------96.73%
12----$162.40 ---$168.00 ------96.67%
Avg---$138.45 ---$150.27------91.84%
Older Arbitrated rates - not current market, but still better than what's on the table for F9, plus 15.5% DC and profit sharing.
Year---Frontier---Southwest----% of Pay
2-----$107.58 ---$118.00 ------91.17%
3-----$115.56 ---$132.00 ------87.55%
4-----$122.10 ---$145.00 ------84.21%
5-----$129.53 ---$159.00 ------81.47%
6-----$134.88 ---$166.00 ------81.25%
7-----$141.04 ---$171.00 ------82.48%
8-----$145.26 ---$175.00 ------83.01%
9-----$151.12 ---$177.00 ------85.38%
10----$154.88 ---$182.00 ------85.10%
11----$158.64 ---$184.00 ------86.22%
12----$162.40 ---$186.00 ------87.31%
Avg---$138.45---$163.18 ------85.01%
Solid rates, not sure when they become amendable with 15% DC and profit sharing
Monthly/Annual breakdown by year for eligible voter and shortfalls based on Spirit, JetBlue, Alaska/Virgin and Southwest FO rates:
Average----------Below Avg--Monthly Loss---Annual Loss
2- $115.25 ------$(7.67)-----$(575.25)------$(6,903.00)
3- $128.75 ------$(13.19)----$(989.25)------$(11,871.00)
4- $139.00 ------$(16.90)----$(1,267.50)----$(15,210.00)
5- $146.00 ------$(16.47)----$(1,235.25)----$(14,823.00)
6- $149.75 ------$(14.87)----$(1,115.25)----$(13,383.00)
7- $153.75 ------$(12.71)----$(953.25)------$(11,439.00)
8- $157.25 ------$(11.99)----$(899.25)------$(10,791.00)
9- $161.00 ------$(9.88)-----$(741.00)-------$(8,892.00)
10-$165.25 ------$(10.37)---$(777.75)-------$(9,333.00)
11-$167.75 ------$(9.11)-----$(683.25)-------$(8,199.00)
12-$171.25 ------$(8.85)----$(663.75)--------$(7,965.00)
AVG $150.45 ----$(12.00)--- $(900.07)-------$(10,800.82)
My vote in more involved than just hourly rates. Retirement is huge too. I haven't even seen the rest of the rules/conditions in the Framework agreement, but the bullets seem fairly standard. I am unwilling to accept a Spirit contract, no offense intended, when the conditions have never been better and we participate in pattern bargaining. This will have a negative effect on all other carriers when they open for their next CBA. I don't mind being average, but refuse to be the lowest common denominator.
It's business, not personal....The math doesn't lie - NO.
Last edited by F9forNow; 11-11-2018 at 06:40 PM. Reason: format
11-11-2018, 06:25 PM
#3200
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 131
You're wrong about me so I hope there's a chance you're wrong about them too. Top of scale numbers at F9 are around 48% of the voters and then there's a fairly steep decline in longevity where the pay rates are just too low for the rest of the AIP.
My quick look shows:
1121 eligible voters.
534 in/close to top of scale.
A handfull at 9 year CA pay.
578 pilots at 7 year CA pay or less.
Jetblue 7 year CA pay with DC is 279 at DOS.
Frontier 7 year CA pay with DC is 239, 3 months after DOS (whatever tf that's about...)
That's not good enough.
Yeah, we're gonna go ahead and vote this one down, get significantly closer to Jetblue rates, and increase our DC at DOS while leaving our unique scheduling abilities intact.
While the devil is in the details, the rate (and therefore min guarantee, for me) is still the constant by which all other computations are derived. They're just too low.
My quick look shows:
1121 eligible voters.
534 in/close to top of scale.
A handfull at 9 year CA pay.
578 pilots at 7 year CA pay or less.
Jetblue 7 year CA pay with DC is 279 at DOS.
Frontier 7 year CA pay with DC is 239, 3 months after DOS (whatever tf that's about...)
That's not good enough.
Yeah, we're gonna go ahead and vote this one down, get significantly closer to Jetblue rates, and increase our DC at DOS while leaving our unique scheduling abilities intact.
While the devil is in the details, the rate (and therefore min guarantee, for me) is still the constant by which all other computations are derived. They're just too low.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
