ToddChavez

Hahaha, right? Everyone also says it's ok for guys in the middle and sucks for the bottom. Isn't that how or current system is and every other system in the industry?

SeaRider

No. It’s very different, actually. Yes, senior people always do well, but under our current system mid and junior level people don’t always eat s### sandwiches. Between conflict, training, vacation, and voluntary trip drops, good trips end up going up for grabs. Two opportunities (one seniority based and one first come, first served) means senior people generally get what they want, and everyone else has some chances of getting a decent trip once in a while. Reserves get the garbage unless someone calls in sick for a good trip.

PBS changes all of that. The drops are minimized as PBS builds lines around the conflicts. Senior people get EXACTLY what they want immediately, junior people get the garbage and reserves cover sick time or schedule disruptions only.

Anyone who isn’t in the top 25 percent in their base will see a significant QOL decrease with PBS. People might vote it in to get a raise, but I predict the 75% are going to be disappointed with the schedules that result.


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ToddChavez

This isn't a blanket true statement. Geez... take some time to educate yourself on PBS. Talk to other users of the navblue system. You'll find you're way off base making these statements.

Also, talk to your scheduling committee members who build the lines. It's not true that the senior folks can take all the "good trips." (Whatever those are) it's impossible to build a complete line solution, PBS or line bidding, without some variety of trips in the lines. (ie the senior 10 people cannot take all the 25 hour 4 days), it just doesn't logistically work under any scheduling system.

SeaRider

Well, since you said “Jeez” and told me to take some time and educate myself, I now see everything exactly your way!!!

I’ve been junior and senior under both systems, but hey, what do I know?


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chinookwinds

THIS IS SPOT ON!!
Our current bidding system is already industry leading with the scheduling flexibility we now enjoy. It is heads above any of our peer groups. Although not perfect, it allows a decent QOL
Don’t sell sell out on this.
We are Frontier Airlines...Not Spirit, Jet Blue, Allegiant, and not even close to a Delta or United. This is our contract we are negotiating and it doesn’t have to follow the operational standards of every other airline. We really only needed to make a market adjustment to pay, retirement, and benefits to bring us into the pattern with our peers who operate the same aircraft. IMO, we didn’t need to re-write any of our basic work rules. I will still need to see the final agreement to make an educated decision to the value of this offer, but what I get from most of the apparent insider rumors, this will be a give away to achieve our original ask from 2 years ago. I hope these rumors will prove to be false.
I also hope everyone remembers the fact that we made it through a bankruptcy and a restructuring agreement from the separation from Republic Airlines without losing any of our contractual work rules. So here we are, conceding to one of the most profitable airlines in the country (1 billion in the bank on our backs) to get the overdue raise in basic pay and benefits this pilot group deserves.
Pretty sad and disgusting!! Indigo has played us well from most the comments on this board.

chinookwinds

I truly hope I am humbly surprised in the framework agreement that was reached. Once again a thanks to our NC for the work and time they have given to possibly bring this madness to an end. I look forward to be proven wrong in my initial interpretation of the communication and that was put out to our pilot group. But if it is not an acceptable agreement we need to have the unity to vote it down and send it back to reach a fair agreement. 7 years of remorse is a long time to the next contract...

ToddChavez

Way to demonstrate the little bubble you live in... Our system is not by ANY means industry leading. Which part is industry leading? Is it:

Lines have consistently had around 50% at 13 days off or less.
Company has complete control over line averages, pairing construction.
The withholding of 20+ lines every month for check airmen.
The unpaid drops in transition that you pray you can make up in MOT.
The hours upon hours bidding that is required, even more in vacation months.
Maybe you're talking about the non-existent contract provision guaranteeing a certain number of days off between trips.

Our system is good for vacation if you're senior. If your not in the upper 25%, you're praying to drop 30 hours worth of trips with one week.

I honestly don't understand the love for our line bidding, especially looking at how miserable it's been recently.

Planepirate

Maybe some of you should think of this backwards: What is so great about your line bidding. All you have is a trip rig and no duty rig. Your trips and most of the schedules have to be very inefficient right? You have a lot of flexibility now. Why would that flexibility be worse after PBS? Isn’t the company required to keep a certain staffing level now to allow these trades? I would guess they didn’t trade that language away (hope not). How do you know that the NC didn’t negotiate industry leading vacation language? Point is: wait to see the details before you make a decision. It’s actually comical to see how resistant some people are with change.

Wheelswatch

You're right about keeping an open mind until we have all the facts, but it would be unintelligent not to remain highly skeptical with regard to Indigo's intentions in all of this.

Distrust is highly warranted at this stage.

IwasInverted

That is what was negotiated to, the ask was united+, I would have to go back in emails to find the exact numbers. The email you are showing was once mediation broke off in September 2017. The NC had come down to that then the company dropped the PBS bomb. Sounds like something similar happened with y’all.