Crown

Do not vote down a contract if it has PBS in it. People make it sound so doom and gloom. I've been using PBS for nearly 10 years and as long as you aren't the most junior in base and you have a rough idea of what you're doing, you'll be fine. Trust me, this is not a reason to vote down a contract.

FlyingR6

Delta actually cares about their employees, so it's a whole other ball game with us

Seriously, I can see where it could be ok, but not with Indigo. They give less than zero s#!ts about us.

JetBlast77

Just to chime in for another perspective, it is ALL about the language. I used line bidding for 7 years then PBS for the last 5, and I would be absolutely DEVIATATED if we went back to line bidding. I find PBS to be superior in almost every way. With line bidding, you are at the mercy of lines being built by someone else. With PBS you build your own line. I want weekends off but I also need a six day block off in the middle of the month. Done. I don’t mind working weekends but I coach baseball on Wednesday nights. Done. Of course it’s all based on senority, but I don’t think I’ve ever found anyone here that prefers line bidding. The key to PBS is for it to be union controlled. The union handles the awards and ensures perimeters are followed. When I think back to all the hours I used to spend with line bidding trying to trade and move things around....I cringe.

As far as the guy who said you don’t bid pairings....that’s the most incorrect statement I’ve ever heard on PBS. Bidding pairings is EXACTLY what you do. As a senior pilot, this is the biggest benifit to PBS. You just find 3 or 4 trips you’d like to fly on the days you want to work, bid them, and you’re done. If you’re more junior and want to work Mon-Thurs or whatever, you find the pairings each week that fall on Mon-Thurs, and you rank them in order from best to worst. You can also say things like....give me as many Saturdays off as possible or I want as many weekends off as I can get with 3 days off over Christmas, ect. Also, the no open time fears don’t have to happen either. You just negotiate a clause in your contract that requires a certain percentage of open time be left over after the awards come out. Think about it....would you rather bid from a bunch of Lines other people build at random, or would you rather build your own? It’s so much better I can’t even tell you. Just my .02. Best of luck to you guys.

Gary et al

While what you say agrees with my own experiences with PBS, and I know you are simply trying to quell the fear many have of PBS. Honestly the biggest problem with PBS for our current contract is like another person posted. It reduces our bargaining position for the following contract. If we gave in and got PBS now it is highly unlikely we would also be able to work in the language required to protect us from a company that needlessly takes away pilot vacations out of spite. By skipping PBS this round and working it into the next we can at least allow the implementation of PBS with ensuring the work rules are solid and keep pay rates.

Of course, again, as of this post there has still been no communication suggesting we are considering PBS.

CoefficientX

^^^^
This. Why anyone would fight to keep line bidding is beyond me. Yes I’ve done both.

CantStayAway

Because you haven’t done bad PBS. I have. At Frontier even though we line bid it is very rare to have 2 trips in a row with the same crew member, and it’s not uncommon to not fly one trip all month with the other pilot who was awarded the same line as you. There is a lot of scheduling flexibility.

My previous airline had very little flexibility. Once you got your awarded line (through PBS) you either worked it or called in sick. There were occasional exceptions to that, but they were the exception and not the rule.

I couldn’t see how anyone would prefer PBS over line bidding. That’s just based on my experience though.

I’d concede that there could potentially be good PBS options out there, BUT I’m with everyone else that says they wouldn’t trust Indigo/Frontier with it.

MCDUie

There’s really no way to argue one is better than the other without having the final contract language of both to compare. As stated before it’s all in the work rules. I don’t think any of us are saying that PBS with no work rules is better than our current line bidding. But without knowing the language that would be negotiated it’s impossible to compare.

In general if the work rules were the exact same I’d prefer PBS. It’s easier to use and you spend less time after the award having to mess with monthly and daily open time. PBS still has daily if something comes up, but overall it requires less effort to get the schedule you desire. This is coming from a guy that was in the middle of the seniority list for the majority of the time I used it. The reality is, not everyone wants the same schedule. So even if you’re junior there’s a chance others senior to you have different preferences.

As far as unstacking is concerned, that’s already included in line bidding. They incorporate it into the line construction so that not all left over pairings are on the same weekend. Bottom line, I can’t say I’d vote one way or the other without seeing the final language, but ALPA control is a must.

ReserveCA

This is why it will NEVER happen here

I like BIG Bus

It’s been awhile, but I haven’t gone anywhere! I’ve been lurking in the background and this is what I see.

Too many people talking about PBS because, as of the last time I spoke to my rep, it is not on the table. So the people touting it on here are either A. management tools probing for reaction and setting the tone to manage expectations...B. Other airline folks who may be trying to be helpful, but don’t understand that no matter how you slice it, it’s impossible to make a good schedule with 15hr 4 days. And 5 hr 2days. C. Other airline folks who don’t have line bidding anymore and are so ****ed they don’t want anyone to have it. Kind of like when all your buddies get married and find out that they’ve been hornswoggled and try to get all their single friends to get married so they’re not the only poor slobs that got taken. Or D. Someone who hasn’t worked here long enough to be off reserve or hasn’t experienced the real flexibility we used to have before the company purposely F’d up the pairings to make anything different from what we have look somewhat appealing.

The truth is, this management group has done so much damage to the relationship with the pilot group, that most of us don’t trust them AT ALL! Let me put it this way. The last Union E-mail they sent us had a big section on other airlines hiring. Which included when and where the next bunch of meet and greets for Spirit Airlines are going to be held. So there you go. They HAVE a contract, and they are setting up PBS as we speak. So if you want a new contract and PBS with an Orlando base, you’re all set!

Giving Indigo/Frontier PBS would be like having relations with a $20 street walker and not using protection. “Hint” it’s a really, really, really, really, really bad idea.

1000% READY TO STRIKE!!!

Flymonkey10

All this discussion on the pros and cons of PBS is a waste if PR and TM are involved in any system.