Frontier Negotiations Discussion
08-22-2017, 08:50 AM
#253
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 497
It's a raise no doubt but it's not industry standard. Do you want to be paid the industry standard compensation or continue to be a bottom feeder. This is the best negotiating environment most of us will ever see in our careers. You either get it now or get it never. The contracts signed this round can not be building blocks for the next round and hope to get industry standard then. This is why bottom feeder airlines stay bottom feeders. They take the raise because it's a raise instead of saying enough is enough and demand compensation on par or better than their peers. FYI, peers are same type of aircraft on the same routes. ULCC is how the company makes its money (and could change at any time) it's not a pilot identity
08-22-2017, 11:12 AM
#254
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
I actually work at spirit but we have a vested interest in you guys succeeding. The company is trying to sell ULCC pilot as a real thing. Don't fall for it. As any frontier pilot already knows that the business model can change at any time yet our job does not and our compensation shouldn't be reclassified based on how they choose to make revenue behind the door. Fwd of the cockpit door a frontier plane is indistinguishable from a plane at any other company and so is the job and so should the compensation.
Stand strong and don't let your expectations be managed down. Industry standard pay and retirement is not only affordable it's profitable. Settling for less just puts less money in your pocket and more in theirs. The money is there. Spirit is a public company and ALPA's financial analysis (the same folks that do the analysis at delta and united) have proven this fact. Even though frontier is private I would wager that frontier is even more profitable than spirit. Indigo knows how to rape and pillage better than anyone. They can afford it and then some.
Stand strong and don't let your expectations be managed down. Industry standard pay and retirement is not only affordable it's profitable. Settling for less just puts less money in your pocket and more in theirs. The money is there. Spirit is a public company and ALPA's financial analysis (the same folks that do the analysis at delta and united) have proven this fact. Even though frontier is private I would wager that frontier is even more profitable than spirit. Indigo knows how to rape and pillage better than anyone. They can afford it and then some.
08-25-2017, 04:06 PM
#255
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: MD-88 FO
Posts: 1,572
08-26-2017, 01:22 PM
#256
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
So let me get this straight,
United top Airbus rate $264/hr plus 16 percent retirement with a raise of 3% January 2018, 4% January 2019
Delta top Airbus rate for A319/320 $257/hr A321 $267/hr plus 16 percent retirement with a raise of 3% January 2018, 4% January 2019
American top Airbus rate $263/hr plus 16 percent retirement with a variable percentage increase every year through 2018
Southwest top rate as of Sept 1, 2017 $258.50/hr with a annual raise
Sept 1, 2018 3.0%
Sept 1, 2019 3.0%
Sept 1, 2020 3.0%
plus a B Fund
1/1/2017: 13.4%
1/1/2018: 14.2%
1/1/2019: 15.0%
plus profit sharing (2016 profit sharing amount was 13.2%)
Total retirement 2016=26.6%
Frontier is asking (starting negotiations at) $245/hr plus 16 percent with no annual raises or profit sharing. With the CEO making almost as much money as Southwest's CEO. Why are we asking for so much less? We will be so far behind by 2019.
Food for thought...
United top Airbus rate $264/hr plus 16 percent retirement with a raise of 3% January 2018, 4% January 2019
Delta top Airbus rate for A319/320 $257/hr A321 $267/hr plus 16 percent retirement with a raise of 3% January 2018, 4% January 2019
American top Airbus rate $263/hr plus 16 percent retirement with a variable percentage increase every year through 2018
Southwest top rate as of Sept 1, 2017 $258.50/hr with a annual raise
Sept 1, 2018 3.0%
Sept 1, 2019 3.0%
Sept 1, 2020 3.0%
plus a B Fund
1/1/2017: 13.4%
1/1/2018: 14.2%
1/1/2019: 15.0%
plus profit sharing (2016 profit sharing amount was 13.2%)
Total retirement 2016=26.6%
Frontier is asking (starting negotiations at) $245/hr plus 16 percent with no annual raises or profit sharing. With the CEO making almost as much money as Southwest's CEO. Why are we asking for so much less? We will be so far behind by 2019.
Food for thought...
Last edited by wt93205; 08-26-2017 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Bold
08-26-2017, 01:36 PM
#257
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Prone Supported
Posts: 196
You prefer to get your info from forums? Call your rep, or email the negotiating committee. SMH
08-26-2017, 02:02 PM
#258
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
Got it from the last MEC podcast where this question was directly asked if they would change the proposed rates which was "no" and I have the email of proposed rates from our negotiating committee sent awhile back. Do you know something I don't?
Last edited by wt93205; 08-26-2017 at 02:16 PM.
08-26-2017, 02:19 PM
#259
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Prone Supported
Posts: 196
Interesting attack based on a huge assumption...
Got it from the last MEC podcast where this question was directly asked if they would change the proposed rates which was "no" and I have the email of proposed rates from our negotiating committee sent awhile back. Do you know something I don't?
Got it from the last MEC podcast where this question was directly asked if they would change the proposed rates which was "no" and I have the email of proposed rates from our negotiating committee sent awhile back. Do you know something I don't?
Posting that makes you seem like your just trying to get a reaction. And it doesn't help.
08-26-2017, 02:48 PM
#260
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
Then why wasn't it in the email they sent? They have everything else they were proposing. Not once have I heard they were asking for it. I hope they do ask for it. Not looking to get a reaction. Just pointing out that we should be asking for more. Why are you so angry?
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