Frontier Negotiations Discussion
10-26-2018, 05:37 PM
#2571
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 617
I've got a terrible feeling about PBS.
The part that makes me the most mad if it comes here is this: The union said we cant rock the boat and introduce new things as negotiations went on. We cant go back and fix per diem or LTD or retirement because that would look bad to the NMB. The company straight up out of nowhere brought PBS in the mix... and we're going to swallow it.
We better get something good in return. We didnt get a TRO like Spirit, we shouldn't be punished like we did.
The part that makes me the most mad if it comes here is this: The union said we cant rock the boat and introduce new things as negotiations went on. We cant go back and fix per diem or LTD or retirement because that would look bad to the NMB. The company straight up out of nowhere brought PBS in the mix... and we're going to swallow it.
We better get something good in return. We didnt get a TRO like Spirit, we shouldn't be punished like we did.
10-26-2018, 05:55 PM
#2572
Slave
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: Hot tub
Posts: 1,411
To me nothing is good enough in return. PBS equals a lower quality of life and more time at work. If the rates were industry leading in exchange for PBS I’d still likely vote no because the next manufactured bankruptcy would bring our rates back down while leaving us with the turd that is PBS.
Definitely NO
10-26-2018, 06:02 PM
#2573
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 79
To me nothing is good enough in return. PBS equals a lower quality of life and more time at work. If the rates were industry leading in exchange for PBS I’d still likely vote no because the next manufactured bankruptcy would bring our rates back down while leaving us with the turd that is PBS.
The having only seven days off for vacation thing is a myth, you can still work the system to gain soft pay. It’s actually more pilot friendly when it comes to bidding. Most guys complaining have never used it.
10-26-2018, 06:14 PM
#2574
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
PBS=No vote. We've made that clear to the MEC and if that is what they AIP it will be voted as such by me. That simple. End of debate. The company is starting to get desperate. Not my problem. I guess it will be my turn to drag it out if need be...
10-26-2018, 06:21 PM
#2575
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
PBS can be better than line bidding with the right work rules. Personally having used both, I prefer it. Line bidding would also suck without work rules. They are both just softwares that award pairings.
The having only seven days off for vacation thing is a myth, you can still work the system to gain soft pay. It’s actually more pilot friendly when it comes to bidding. Most guys complaining have never used it.
The having only seven days off for vacation thing is a myth, you can still work the system to gain soft pay. It’s actually more pilot friendly when it comes to bidding. Most guys complaining have never used it.
As for your vacation being a myth? What world are you living in? When I had PBS 7 days of vacation was only worth 21 hours or basically a 4 day trip! The other 3 of those days were already your days off so it is a scam! Forget PBS!!! Vote no to PBS!!! Trust me you don't want it!!! Even if you are senior (due to the vacation)!
10-26-2018, 06:22 PM
#2576
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 124
PBS can be better than line bidding with the right work rules. Personally having used both, I prefer it. Line bidding would also suck without work rules. They are both just softwares that award pairings.
The having only seven days off for vacation thing is a myth, you can still work the system to gain soft pay. It’s actually more pilot friendly when it comes to bidding. Most guys complaining have never used it.
The having only seven days off for vacation thing is a myth, you can still work the system to gain soft pay. It’s actually more pilot friendly when it comes to bidding. Most guys complaining have never used it.
You will never get a company to agree to something like making pbs build the lines *prior* to applying vacation drops, despite how many pro-pbs guys like to trot out that example. Eliminating conflicts before they happen is one of, if not THE primary reason a company wants pbs. It makes pilots work more days for the same credit and reduces the number of pilots needed on staff. It is ALWAYS a concession. Period.
10-26-2018, 06:37 PM
#2578
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 79
Ha! You sound like management! We would need serious work rules such as severe limits on unstacking as a major thing that would have to go with PBS. Our MEC and NC have no clue on what we need because they have never used it so buyer beware!!! The Company will just shrink the number of pilots and unstack everyone. Then they save $$$ and we get flying shoved on us without honoring any of our preferences. I had PBS before. This was the biggest downfall and man it was painful.
As for your vacation being a myth? What world are you living in? When I had PBS 7 days of vacation was only worth 21 hours or basically a 4 day trip! The other 3 of those days were already your days off so it is a scam! Forget PBS!!! Vote no to PBS!!! Trust me you don't want it!!! Even if you are senior (due to the vacation)!
As for your vacation being a myth? What world are you living in? When I had PBS 7 days of vacation was only worth 21 hours or basically a 4 day trip! The other 3 of those days were already your days off so it is a scam! Forget PBS!!! Vote no to PBS!!! Trust me you don't want it!!! Even if you are senior (due to the vacation)!
As far as our NC is concerned, they’re more educated about PBS than you know. Coons has been attending every PBS seminar available for the last year in a half educating himself for the day it reared it’s head. Give the guys some credit.
I’m not saying vote one way or the other but to vote no on something just because of it’s title is ignorant. I plan to hear the guys out and listen to the work rules they negotiate regardless what bidding system they decide on.
10-26-2018, 06:45 PM
#2579
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
Sounds like you had bad work rules with PBS. Line bidding could be equally painful with bad work rules. I worked under PBS for about 7 years and loved it. On a vacation month I only worked 7-8 days depending on credit of the trips. I also had the option to pickup extra if I wanted.
As far as our NC is concerned, they’re more educated about PBS than you know. Coons has been attending every PBS seminar available for the last year in a half educating himself for the day it reared it’s head. Give the guys some credit.
I’m not saying vote one way or the other but to vote no on something just because of it’s title is ignorant. I plan to hear the guys out and listen to the work rules they negotiate regardless what bidding system they decide on.
As far as our NC is concerned, they’re more educated about PBS than you know. Coons has been attending every PBS seminar available for the last year in a half educating himself for the day it reared it’s head. Give the guys some credit.
I’m not saying vote one way or the other but to vote no on something just because of it’s title is ignorant. I plan to hear the guys out and listen to the work rules they negotiate regardless what bidding system they decide on.
10-26-2018, 06:48 PM
#2580
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 79
Hard to argue with that. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I would vote for just any PBS system.
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