CantStayAway

Also agreed. We will always have our vote and unless we get released (&#128514 I think the first contract we vote on will need to be a resounding NO. Not 55% no but 80%+ no. Then the next deal may have a resemblance of industry standard.

The company is planning to wear us down and wear down our resolve. They’ll never wear me down to where I’ll sell myself short.

Gary et al

Ah, yes I forgot that it may or may not have been deductible any longer. I didn't look into it, as I knew itemizing with the new tax law for myself would probably not be better than standard. So my bad there.

And as for the other, again I agree. But all of it was hypotheticals, I think El Gipples point was, why would any body blanket statement NO on one item if the other items are so much better that they make up for it. You can't please everybody, but some statements just have no logic.

Using the "what happens when our contract gets slashed in bankruptcy court" is certainly something to consider. Which is why an hourly rate dollar value needs to be + X%

Again its all random worthless hypothetical nonsense with the only purpose of educating those set on having absolutes on market rate X Y and Z. If you average block hours for a pilot to 600 a year and take El Gipple's $5,244 for what $2.25 per diem would have provided in actual income for the year that equates to a block dollar per hour value of $8.74 which is obviously a lower value if convert it to credit or if he/she flew more hours. That's why I threw out a random $15, its basically double the value of per diem in actual take home and even a 40% pay cut by a bankruptcy judge would still keep that portion of pay above industry standard per diem. Again, just a random hypothetical with the purpose of understand how not having X over here but having more Y over there equals a bigger Z than if you had the X you thought you wanted. X+Y=Z

No, I would NEVER expect Indigo would agree to anything like that, not a chance. They understand numbers, and they want to keep the most numbers for themselves.

El Gipple

Hypothetical example. Simply to demonstrate the point that folks need to broaden their view when it eventually comes down to reviewing the economic value of the ENTIRE package.

FairWage

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PILOT TALENT COMMUNITY
Greetings!

Since you’ve shown interest in flying for Alaska Airlines, we wanted you to be among the first to know that we’ll be posting a new pilot job opening this Friday, September 14. If you or someone you know is interested in flying for us, visit AlaskaAir.jobs to find the posting and submit an application. The job will be posted until Monday, September 24.

Keep in mind that this posting will replace any previous job postings. So if you’ve applied to Alaska in the past, now’s the time to submit a fresh application with your updated flight hours, certifications, or personal information.

We’re looking forward to seeing your application.

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Wheelswatch

This post prompted me to hop over to the Alaska sub-forum, found a hiring thread. Couldn't believe they sound exactly like us of late. Dang it!

dracir1

Ok, there are really 2 issues going on here: one is on Indigo but the more crucial issue falls squarely on us.

The first issue is Indigos continued reluctance to pay fair wages. Two ways to look at this really...companies that care about long term growth/stability view their employees as assets to making money and therefore want them to be as happy as possible given a bottom line profit that needs to be realized. They share that profit with their employees both as a way of rewarding them but moreso to encourage better production. It’s the win-win solution. Indigo has a different viewpoint in that they see their employees as necessary evils in the attempt to squeeze as much profit as possible (usually prior to selling at a huge profit). That philosophy is what it is - we are just the unlucky workers who inherited selfish ownership. That is the part that’s on them...

However, we aren’t without blame either. How many of us would be willing to vote YES to the proposed rates and contract package we have been negotiating with? I mean the VERY contract we propose from the company - would any of us be happy if Indigo gave us everything we wanted? I wouldn’t. I think we severely underbid. And who’s fault is that? The MEC? They work for us so we either have a rouge MEC or we did a poor job indicating to our representatives what our minimum acceptable conditions are. That’s on us...

So, while casting stones at Indigo and the NMB is certainly relevant, we need to ensure OUR house is in order. Perhaps we need to petition our MEC with increased stipulations (since both NK and JB have signed contracts since our initial bid) and go from there.

Need a real job

Agreed 100%

ReserveCA

Warning not PC


The check airmen could force a contract TOMORROW but ......they all enjoy working for the RAINBOW AIRLINE. ...... taking it up the @$$ daily

Qotsaautopilot

The Spirit contract requires the company to use seniority list pilots as instructors and check airmen. However, if there are not enough volunteers the company can go to non-seniority list pilots.

Is that not the case at Frontier?

madmax757

No - there’s a number of over 65 yo guys that do training and aircraft deliveries. Most don’t even need a job because of a military pension.