InThisTogether

You guys do realize that the only reason we are meeting with the NMB, is because we upped the ask and are entering into a completely new round of negotions. Same shiit, different day.

Need a real job

**** the BS. The NMB members should be hu:g. Follow SOP and CBA. Don’t use your cell phone. Let the company figure their own war out. **** em

RustyChain

Probably right, but beats what we were doing.

DENpilot

So you think the NMB said to themselves, "Oh, F9 pilots upped their ask and now that we are farther from an agreement, let's have another meeting!"

Come on, that is illogical.

Also, this isn't a new round. The union didn't up the ask on already TA'd items. We are still trying to close the remaining open items.

ReserveCA

We should go in to negotiations.
State that ALL TA’d items are Pulled and WALK OUT...

monkeybrains

Do you ever think before you start typing. Why would we do that? All that would do is kick the can another 2-3 years down the road. You do understand the ultimate goal is to get a deal done. The company would like nothing more than for us to pull all the TAs off the table because it would cause more delays.
You have clearly demonstrated that you will ultimately vote no for any TA that is presented to you regardless of what is in it. But, for the rational folks, our goal needs to be to get a deal done. NOT a discounted deal, NOT a substandard deal, an industry deal. What does that mean? Well I suppose the exact specifics vary from pilot to pilot, but basically it means a deal that gets us out of the basement and gets us to industry average or above. Before you start your rant remember that in 3 months our top CAs will be paid $100/hr less than industry AVERAGE. So I have no interest in pulling all TAs off the table and beating my chest. I do have an interest in getting a deal done that closes that gap. A deal that gets us better retirement. If we wind up $1 or $2 dollars below industry average, I don’t really care. I’m more interested in the first $98-$99/hour. We are giving up $100k+\ year each year we don’t get this deal done.
The company obviously has no interest in getting a deal done, but I can’t imagine why any pilot would advocate for anything that would drag this process out even longer.

PulledBreaker

The further we are from the company's proposal, the closer we are to a legitimate impasse. I vote we pull TA'd items also.

I don't think it's any secret that a strike is our only option.

monkeybrains

Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way. We are at an impasse right now. The board is not going to proffer this case, but if you are hoping to get released, pulling TAs off the table will not help your cause.
Typically(granted this is not a typical situation) the board will proffer a case when the parties are down to a few outstanding economic items. They will not proffer a case that has hundreds of open items.
Using your logic, every negotiation would start with the pilots walking in asking for a trillion dollars an hour, saying we are light years apart, declare an impasse, and get released. That is not the way it goes. I wish it was, but it is not.
I don’t think a strike is our only chance, nor do I think we will be going on strike anytime soon, but if you have been paying attention, the company is in dire straights trying to hire pilots. They have NO prospects. We have airplanes arriving pretty steadily for the near future and they are to the point where they are unable to fill classes. True there are some people coming to class, but it is a smaller and smaller number each class. The operation is a mess and getting worse. These are pressure points that need to be exploited. When there are airplanes parked on the ramp due to lack of crews, then the company will show up and negotiate. If you’re waiting for a proffer, I think you are going to be majorly disappointed.

CantStayAway

This. Also, the parties must be close on the remaining items that are open. The NMB will not proffer if they don’t think a deal will get done during the 30 day cooling off period.

Makes me wonder why they called another meeting when we just recently pulled ourselves further away from the company.

RgrMurdock

This. Many of you guys seem clueless as the how the negotiation process plays out or what each party's role is. I'll add on that these SAFE and CBA references won't work either. When you started negotiations, status quo was locked in. If the entire pilot group suddenly starts not using their cell phones, that's a violation of the status quo. It doesn't matter if they have recordings of the union encouraging it or not. SAFE campaigns didn't work for AA and it won't work for you guys. You have to play by the rules which is very frustrating. This NMB seems to be blind to the obvious. But taking matters into your own hands will only hurt the group.