Gary et al

Then you might as well bend over now.

The best way to get a contract is to stop people from coming here and to get people hired out of here. I'm willing and trying to leave. It just hasn't worked yet.

The other points were valid as well. This nmb is horrible.

Powderkeg

You think Oscar and Ed aren’t taking notes? I’m sure they’re watching our negotiations with a look like Mr. Smithers right before he says “release the hounds.” Indigo is setting an example of what can be gotten away with. If the NMB won’t let us strike then never in a million years will DL and UA be allowed. Whats to keep DL and UA from employing the same stingy stall tactics? They know there is no penalty or threat of a strike.

It behooves ALPA to invest that capital in us so it doesn’t have to invest even more if/when they go down the exact same roads.

And before anybody chimes in the the “keeping up PR for the shareholders” BS to rationalize that the big guys would NEVER stoop so low as to stonewall their pilots *gasp*...shareholders care about bottom line. Not us pilots.

Super EZ E

Pist..... When the aircraft stop moving you'll get a contract. If you don't do that then SHUT UP AND ROW!!

CantStayAway

Too bad HR has taken over hiring at most big airlines. If pilots were hiring pilots I think there’d be a major outflow of pilots from Frontier.

As for the NMB, yes they’re bad but the previous NMB wasn’t much better. They let Republic pilots sit in mediation for 6+ years. The pilots there finally gave up a couple of the things they were holding out for just to get a deal (namely retirement and vacation).

I hope we don’t do the same.

putzin

Hmm, we didn't stop rowing and got one. Of course it's completely substandard.

Hopefully the F9 group is stronger than us.

Qotsaautopilot

Completely different. A FFD carrier really only has two costs: real estate and labor, and revenue is fixed for each flight. The only way to make more profits is to gain more flying but the majors like to shuffle it around on short contracts and diversify heavily amongst the carriers to lower risk and FFD carriers bidding against each other.

If you were the NMB and a FFD management was telling you that they operate on razor thin margins and the only way to give labor group what they want is to ask for more money from the major partner. This would result in loss of flying and put the company in jeopardy. Would you have much choice but to ice negotiations until labor moves? This is assuming what the management is telling you is true. In FFD it mostly is. It’s a terrible business model.

Frontier is completely different for so many reasons. Mainly, they sell their own tickets and control how they generate revenue. They also happen to be quite good at and are printing money. Pretty hard to refute. This is no more than stonewalling by a business friendly, labor hating, political organization.

crxpilot

Good idea rehashed.....

Changing the Railway Labor Act
So has any union or labor group (ie. ALPA, Teamsters etc) ever tried to actively change the rules of the RLA in regards to an automatic “release” timeline?
For example, 2 years of negotiations, 1 year of mediation, 60 days to cool off and then you are allowed an AUTOMATIC release to self help at that point.
Everybody fights their own negotiations with the current rules in place with almost no hope of ever being released for self help and companies knowing this and dragging out limitless negotiations.
If all the work groups got together and lobbied for an automatic release timeline, at least there would be a better chance for labor contracts to move forward.

Powderkeg

Maybe for another few tenths of a percent of our meager pay taken in worthless dues they (ALPA) would consider working toward it. But of course only after United and Delta are led to new contracts. ALPA and God...both get money blindly from their followers and have no accountability for how it’s spent.

CantStayAway

With the current administration if the RLA were up for negotiations I believe the airline lobbyists would pound the pavement in DC way harder than ALPA or Teamsters. The final result would likely be an even more anti-labor RLA (if that’s possible). I’m sure airlines would love to have a Republican Congress and President amend the RLA.

Qotsaautopilot

Not saying it’s a bad idea but consider this: how would that play out in 2002 or 2008? I understand that when management wants concessions they come for them even if the contract is not amendable, but let’s consider its flat year in the economy, not growth or recession, do we want our contracts to be amendable or do we want them to expire? At which point management can impose whatever they want and we can go on strike if we don’t like it or it’s amendable and status quo must be maintained indefinitely until a new agreement is ratified or release is granted by the NMB.

Right now it seems that dragging things out under the RLA is only of benefit to management but there are scenarios where dragging things out could be a good strategy for us