Executive Airshare
11-22-2013, 12:24 PM
#1081
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 178
I appreciate your concern about my relationship with management, but your advice was not asked for. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, including you, but since you admittedly don't work at EAS, and have never met anyone, management or not, that do work at EAS, maybe your advice might not be worth a whole lot and might not be very welcome. After reading some of your posts in other threads, I'm pretty clear of your motivation and your views on unions.
Have a great day and good luck to you.
Have a great day and good luck to you.
My opinion is just that. My opinion. Some may chose to take the advice, others may not. That's fine with me. Actually that wasn't directed specifically at you, but rather anyone reading.
That said, my opinion was not formed over night. It is just what I have seen in the many years I have been doing this type if flying. As they say, YMMV.
I honestly hope EAS is a great company, and does not do the foolish things that lead to a union. It certainly wouldn't be my first choice. But again as they say, s... happens.
Fly safe
11-22-2013, 02:18 PM
#1082
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 926
Shame on you Kritchlow for advocating unions!
Shame on you Kritchlow!
Haven't you heard all unions are evil...
! I just saw it on Fox "News", so it's got to be true... I mean O'Reily, Hannity, Fox and Friends, Glen Beck, Rush, Mark Levin, and the Koch Brothers can't all be wrong.
I have met many pilots in my career who are unhappy with their contract, their Union, their National or Local leadership, but I have yet to meet one that would go back to being unrepresented as an At-Will Employee. And I personally have been unrepresented, under-represented In-house, IBT, ALPA, and if I ever have to work at a non-union property again, I'll probably start one myself. Of course, that would rule out flying for EAS because they will "never have a union", LOL!
I have 2 contract books from former companies whose CEO's swore they'd shut down if a union ever came on the property... One of the oldest threats in the book and a fun challenge for those who want to stay and make it a better place to work. And it's funny to watch the "if you don't like it here, then leave" guys when they have that light bulb, seminal moment they realize that the union is working for them. All pilots owe a great deal of debt and gratitude for those union pioneers at AA, PAA, UPS, Netjets, etc. (to mention only a few in each niche of this industry), who persevered to make flying a better career for all of us. A struggle that continues to this day.
Bottom Line for all airlines: No company get a union unless they deserve one, and no pilot group gets a contract unless they deserve it and work for it.
Haven't you heard all unions are evil...
! I just saw it on Fox "News", so it's got to be true... I mean O'Reily, Hannity, Fox and Friends, Glen Beck, Rush, Mark Levin, and the Koch Brothers can't all be wrong.I have met many pilots in my career who are unhappy with their contract, their Union, their National or Local leadership, but I have yet to meet one that would go back to being unrepresented as an At-Will Employee. And I personally have been unrepresented, under-represented In-house, IBT, ALPA, and if I ever have to work at a non-union property again, I'll probably start one myself. Of course, that would rule out flying for EAS because they will "never have a union", LOL!
I have 2 contract books from former companies whose CEO's swore they'd shut down if a union ever came on the property... One of the oldest threats in the book and a fun challenge for those who want to stay and make it a better place to work. And it's funny to watch the "if you don't like it here, then leave" guys when they have that light bulb, seminal moment they realize that the union is working for them. All pilots owe a great deal of debt and gratitude for those union pioneers at AA, PAA, UPS, Netjets, etc. (to mention only a few in each niche of this industry), who persevered to make flying a better career for all of us. A struggle that continues to this day.
Bottom Line for all airlines: No company get a union unless they deserve one, and no pilot group gets a contract unless they deserve it and work for it.
11-22-2013, 03:22 PM
#1083
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 30
That statement was condescending. Since you won't work at EAS, because we aren't union, why even bother posting on the EAS thread?
BTW, I'm not anti-union. I grew up in a union home and have been in a union. I just don't see that we need one.
11-22-2013, 07:41 PM
#1085
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 690
Wow. I've been away from this thread for awhile. What a turn it has taken!
In the first week of October, EAS had 90 pilots. October had it's largest indoc class as of yet! I can't imagine 10 left in a month. So I think there is at least 80. One left for spirit. Which I wouldn't do.
I have come across a few regional pilots who are now EAS. And those I spoke with (less than a handful) they were prior pinnacle and American eagle, maybe one was colgan. And they didn't have many complaints. They like it. They might say that they won't be here forever. But their pleased with the change. But that's just a few I've heard from out of the bunch. I've heard some positives guys. And some negatives guys. Just like anywhere. Senior Ups and fedex pilots complain too.
In the first week of October, EAS had 90 pilots. October had it's largest indoc class as of yet! I can't imagine 10 left in a month. So I think there is at least 80. One left for spirit. Which I wouldn't do.
I have come across a few regional pilots who are now EAS. And those I spoke with (less than a handful) they were prior pinnacle and American eagle, maybe one was colgan. And they didn't have many complaints. They like it. They might say that they won't be here forever. But their pleased with the change. But that's just a few I've heard from out of the bunch. I've heard some positives guys. And some negatives guys. Just like anywhere. Senior Ups and fedex pilots complain too.
11-22-2013, 11:01 PM
#1086
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 926
OK Dirty, you have a point...
OK Dirty,
You make some good points. Believe it or not, and as much as a union supporter I obviously am, it wasn't my intent to make this specific thread about unions or lack there of.
EAS seems like a very nice place to work, with the only complaint that I ever hear on here being your schedule. And you know that when you get hired. The very fact that RI, who I believe was a member of your Chief Pilot's office, is still on here and is still helpful and is as supportive as he is speaks volumes about him and your Company. It is obvious that he still loves the Company and its pilot group even though he's moved on and it's also obvious that your pilots respected and revered him.. I think it's him.
But what pulls my string on this thread, in particular, are blanket statements about unions that I wholeheartedly disagree with. To say that I am a supporter and defender of pilot unions would be an understatement, so it is true I make posts on here all the time about when I see something dumb said against unions or any American's right to organize.
About the only disagreement I have with RI is how there will never be a union at EAS... While that may be true, and personally, I think that would be great if things are that good there why organize? But anyone who has been in this business long enough, and maybe you and RI have, too, knows that anything can change overnight. How many times has pay, QOL, work rules, etc. gone South OVERNIGHT at airlines with a new CEO, or other management change? I've been suckered twice in my career and caught up in a pleasant CEO's cult of personality, thinking twice about whether to send in a Union card, only to have a new CEO from Mesa (whose mantra was "pilots are like tires... You wear them out and get new ones". I can tell you that all the warm fuzzies, faerie dust, and cumbayahs towards our pilot group went away overnight. Immediately, pay, schedule, QOL, and morale were affected. I can also tell you that when I first showed up there, if someone even mentioned the words "union" or "ALPA", they were schooled by all the former EAL, Pan Am, etc. pilots there (pilots who sounded much like RI). And they were like "Hey, things are so great, why would we want to screw up what we already have and **** off Management?" Well, don't we wish we had a contract in place when the new CEO took over? Fool me once...
One only has to look as far as XOJET in your segment of the industry to see what may happen to an unrepresented pilot group when new management takes over. When Siegel took over as CEO of XOJET, he left the same trail of destruction there that he had a US Airways. XOJET was a great place to work, just like EAS is today... Then, two weeks before Christmas, one-fifth of the pilot group was terminated with no notice... Not furloughed, mind you, but terminated which is a box they will have to check on their online applications for the rest of their careers. Airlines understand furloughs, but terminations, accidents, incidents, DWI's, etc. are often filtered out before you even get to an interview. Sure, pilots need to be fired from time to time, but with the level of professionalism of all pilots I find it very difficult to justify firing one-fifth of your pilot force on one bloody morning. Wouldn't it have been nice for the XOJET pilots to have had a CBA with a written furlough by seniority policy? Of course, pilots at Netjets and Flight Options never have to fear these atrocities as they are protected by their respective CBA's.
Chime in if you want, RI, but please tell me that if a Johnathan Orenstein, a Frank Lorenzo, or a David Siegel took the reins at EAS and started to treat pilots like crap that you would want to see the pilots there stand up for themselves and organize? Would you rather them just leave to Company rather than fighting to preserve it? If I don't like the Affordable Care Act, should I leave the USA? Or should I fight it by electing representatives that share my beliefs. I know America is worth fighting for to preserve and improve, and I feel that many companies are also.
This is why I feel that it is obtuse to say that there will never be a union at EAS. You just never know what will happen in aviation.
You make some good points. Believe it or not, and as much as a union supporter I obviously am, it wasn't my intent to make this specific thread about unions or lack there of.
EAS seems like a very nice place to work, with the only complaint that I ever hear on here being your schedule. And you know that when you get hired. The very fact that RI, who I believe was a member of your Chief Pilot's office, is still on here and is still helpful and is as supportive as he is speaks volumes about him and your Company. It is obvious that he still loves the Company and its pilot group even though he's moved on and it's also obvious that your pilots respected and revered him.. I think it's him.
But what pulls my string on this thread, in particular, are blanket statements about unions that I wholeheartedly disagree with. To say that I am a supporter and defender of pilot unions would be an understatement, so it is true I make posts on here all the time about when I see something dumb said against unions or any American's right to organize.
About the only disagreement I have with RI is how there will never be a union at EAS... While that may be true, and personally, I think that would be great if things are that good there why organize? But anyone who has been in this business long enough, and maybe you and RI have, too, knows that anything can change overnight. How many times has pay, QOL, work rules, etc. gone South OVERNIGHT at airlines with a new CEO, or other management change? I've been suckered twice in my career and caught up in a pleasant CEO's cult of personality, thinking twice about whether to send in a Union card, only to have a new CEO from Mesa (whose mantra was "pilots are like tires... You wear them out and get new ones". I can tell you that all the warm fuzzies, faerie dust, and cumbayahs towards our pilot group went away overnight. Immediately, pay, schedule, QOL, and morale were affected. I can also tell you that when I first showed up there, if someone even mentioned the words "union" or "ALPA", they were schooled by all the former EAL, Pan Am, etc. pilots there (pilots who sounded much like RI). And they were like "Hey, things are so great, why would we want to screw up what we already have and **** off Management?" Well, don't we wish we had a contract in place when the new CEO took over? Fool me once...
One only has to look as far as XOJET in your segment of the industry to see what may happen to an unrepresented pilot group when new management takes over. When Siegel took over as CEO of XOJET, he left the same trail of destruction there that he had a US Airways. XOJET was a great place to work, just like EAS is today... Then, two weeks before Christmas, one-fifth of the pilot group was terminated with no notice... Not furloughed, mind you, but terminated which is a box they will have to check on their online applications for the rest of their careers. Airlines understand furloughs, but terminations, accidents, incidents, DWI's, etc. are often filtered out before you even get to an interview. Sure, pilots need to be fired from time to time, but with the level of professionalism of all pilots I find it very difficult to justify firing one-fifth of your pilot force on one bloody morning. Wouldn't it have been nice for the XOJET pilots to have had a CBA with a written furlough by seniority policy? Of course, pilots at Netjets and Flight Options never have to fear these atrocities as they are protected by their respective CBA's.
Chime in if you want, RI, but please tell me that if a Johnathan Orenstein, a Frank Lorenzo, or a David Siegel took the reins at EAS and started to treat pilots like crap that you would want to see the pilots there stand up for themselves and organize? Would you rather them just leave to Company rather than fighting to preserve it? If I don't like the Affordable Care Act, should I leave the USA? Or should I fight it by electing representatives that share my beliefs. I know America is worth fighting for to preserve and improve, and I feel that many companies are also.
This is why I feel that it is obtuse to say that there will never be a union at EAS. You just never know what will happen in aviation.
Last edited by B727DRVR; 11-22-2013 at 11:31 PM.
11-23-2013, 10:21 AM
#1088
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 178
OK Dirty,
You make some good points. Believe it or not, and as much as a union supporter I obviously am, it wasn't my intent to make this specific thread about unions or lack there of.
EAS seems like a very nice place to work, with the only complaint that I ever hear on here being your schedule. And you know that when you get hired. The very fact that RI, who I believe was a member of your Chief Pilot's office, is still on here and is still helpful and is as supportive as he is speaks volumes about him and your Company. It is obvious that he still loves the Company and its pilot group even though he's moved on and it's also obvious that your pilots respected and revered him.. I think it's him.
But what pulls my string on this thread, in particular, are blanket statements about unions that I wholeheartedly disagree with. To say that I am a supporter and defender of pilot unions would be an understatement, so it is true I make posts on here all the time about when I see something dumb said against unions or any American's right to organize.
About the only disagreement I have with RI is how there will never be a union at EAS... While that may be true, and personally, I think that would be great if things are that good there why organize? But anyone who has been in this business long enough, and maybe you and RI have, too, knows that anything can change overnight. How many times has pay, QOL, work rules, etc. gone South OVERNIGHT at airlines with a new CEO, or other management change? I've been suckered twice in my career and caught up in a pleasant CEO's cult of personality, thinking twice about whether to send in a Union card, only to have a new CEO from Mesa (whose mantra was "pilots are like tires... You wear them out and get new ones". I can tell you that all the warm fuzzies, faerie dust, and cumbayahs towards our pilot group went away overnight. Immediately, pay, schedule, QOL, and morale were affected. I can also tell you that when I first showed up there, if someone even mentioned the words "union" or "ALPA", they were schooled by all the former EAL, Pan Am, etc. pilots there (pilots who sounded much like RI). And they were like "Hey, things are so great, why would we want to screw up what we already have and **** off Management?" Well, don't we wish we had a contract in place when the new CEO took over? Fool me once...
One only has to look as far as XOJET in your segment of the industry to see what may happen to an unrepresented pilot group when new management takes over. When Siegel took over as CEO of XOJET, he left the same trail of destruction there that he had a US Airways. XOJET was a great place to work, just like EAS is today... Then, two weeks before Christmas, one-fifth of the pilot group was terminated with no notice... Not furloughed, mind you, but terminated which is a box they will have to check on their online applications for the rest of their careers. Airlines understand furloughs, but terminations, accidents, incidents, DWI's, etc. are often filtered out before you even get to an interview. Sure, pilots need to be fired from time to time, but with the level of professionalism of all pilots I find it very difficult to justify firing one-fifth of your pilot force on one bloody morning. Wouldn't it have been nice for the XOJET pilots to have had a CBA with a written furlough by seniority policy? Of course, pilots at Netjets and Flight Options never have to fear these atrocities as they are protected by their respective CBA's.
Chime in if you want, RI, but please tell me that if a Johnathan Orenstein, a Frank Lorenzo, or a David Siegel took the reins at EAS and started to treat pilots like crap that you would want to see the pilots there stand up for themselves and organize? Would you rather them just leave to Company rather than fighting to preserve it? If I don't like the Affordable Care Act, should I leave the USA? Or should I fight it by electing representatives that share my beliefs. I know America is worth fighting for to preserve and improve, and I feel that many companies are also.
This is why I feel that it is obtuse to say that there will never be a union at EAS. You just never know what will happen in aviation.
You make some good points. Believe it or not, and as much as a union supporter I obviously am, it wasn't my intent to make this specific thread about unions or lack there of.
EAS seems like a very nice place to work, with the only complaint that I ever hear on here being your schedule. And you know that when you get hired. The very fact that RI, who I believe was a member of your Chief Pilot's office, is still on here and is still helpful and is as supportive as he is speaks volumes about him and your Company. It is obvious that he still loves the Company and its pilot group even though he's moved on and it's also obvious that your pilots respected and revered him.. I think it's him.
But what pulls my string on this thread, in particular, are blanket statements about unions that I wholeheartedly disagree with. To say that I am a supporter and defender of pilot unions would be an understatement, so it is true I make posts on here all the time about when I see something dumb said against unions or any American's right to organize.
About the only disagreement I have with RI is how there will never be a union at EAS... While that may be true, and personally, I think that would be great if things are that good there why organize? But anyone who has been in this business long enough, and maybe you and RI have, too, knows that anything can change overnight. How many times has pay, QOL, work rules, etc. gone South OVERNIGHT at airlines with a new CEO, or other management change? I've been suckered twice in my career and caught up in a pleasant CEO's cult of personality, thinking twice about whether to send in a Union card, only to have a new CEO from Mesa (whose mantra was "pilots are like tires... You wear them out and get new ones". I can tell you that all the warm fuzzies, faerie dust, and cumbayahs towards our pilot group went away overnight. Immediately, pay, schedule, QOL, and morale were affected. I can also tell you that when I first showed up there, if someone even mentioned the words "union" or "ALPA", they were schooled by all the former EAL, Pan Am, etc. pilots there (pilots who sounded much like RI). And they were like "Hey, things are so great, why would we want to screw up what we already have and **** off Management?" Well, don't we wish we had a contract in place when the new CEO took over? Fool me once...
One only has to look as far as XOJET in your segment of the industry to see what may happen to an unrepresented pilot group when new management takes over. When Siegel took over as CEO of XOJET, he left the same trail of destruction there that he had a US Airways. XOJET was a great place to work, just like EAS is today... Then, two weeks before Christmas, one-fifth of the pilot group was terminated with no notice... Not furloughed, mind you, but terminated which is a box they will have to check on their online applications for the rest of their careers. Airlines understand furloughs, but terminations, accidents, incidents, DWI's, etc. are often filtered out before you even get to an interview. Sure, pilots need to be fired from time to time, but with the level of professionalism of all pilots I find it very difficult to justify firing one-fifth of your pilot force on one bloody morning. Wouldn't it have been nice for the XOJET pilots to have had a CBA with a written furlough by seniority policy? Of course, pilots at Netjets and Flight Options never have to fear these atrocities as they are protected by their respective CBA's.
Chime in if you want, RI, but please tell me that if a Johnathan Orenstein, a Frank Lorenzo, or a David Siegel took the reins at EAS and started to treat pilots like crap that you would want to see the pilots there stand up for themselves and organize? Would you rather them just leave to Company rather than fighting to preserve it? If I don't like the Affordable Care Act, should I leave the USA? Or should I fight it by electing representatives that share my beliefs. I know America is worth fighting for to preserve and improve, and I feel that many companies are also.
This is why I feel that it is obtuse to say that there will never be a union at EAS. You just never know what will happen in aviation.
11-26-2013, 08:36 AM
#1089
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 35
Open Positions
Hey Folks,
We have a few pilot openings that I would like to share,
King Air 350/C90 SIC ICT
(2) Phenom 300/100 SIC DAL/FTW
If you are interested, head to our website and fill out an Online Application,
Careers | Executive Air Share - Fractional Jet & Aircraft Ownership
PM me if you have any questions, Thanks!
We have a few pilot openings that I would like to share,
King Air 350/C90 SIC ICT
(2) Phenom 300/100 SIC DAL/FTW
If you are interested, head to our website and fill out an Online Application,
Careers | Executive Air Share - Fractional Jet & Aircraft Ownership
PM me if you have any questions, Thanks!
11-26-2013, 12:40 PM
#1090
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 880
PM sent. Thanks!
Hey Folks,
We have a few pilot openings that I would like to share,
King Air 350/C90 SIC ICT
(2) Phenom 300/100 SIC DAL/FTW
If you are interested, head to our website and fill out an Online Application,
Careers | Executive Air Share - Fractional Jet & Aircraft Ownership
PM me if you have any questions, Thanks!
We have a few pilot openings that I would like to share,
King Air 350/C90 SIC ICT
(2) Phenom 300/100 SIC DAL/FTW
If you are interested, head to our website and fill out an Online Application,
Careers | Executive Air Share - Fractional Jet & Aircraft Ownership
PM me if you have any questions, Thanks!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Bill Lumberg
Fractional
35
02-25-2013 09:30 AM
Bill Lumberg
Fractional
2
07-02-2008 06:08 AM
