Former Legacy Guys at NetJets?
03-31-2008, 11:26 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 210
National went down in 2002. If you had taken your 757 time to UPS then, you'd be in the top half of the list in the ONT domicle as an F/O. Or you could have gone to Southwest. Instead you chose to walk away for personal reasons.
More power to you. Just don't exepct those of us who have had success with the career to take your comments at face value.
More power to you. Just don't exepct those of us who have had success with the career to take your comments at face value.
Timothy
03-31-2008, 12:15 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
Who says I'm not thankful? I think part of my problem with Skyhigh's viewpoint is that I HAVE had such a successful career. Call it luck if you want, there is a lot more too it than just that (perserverence, good choices, ect...)
If I can do it, have a successful flying career, who am I to say to the next guy he shouldn't? It makes sense that Skyhigh has his views. Where I draw the line is he takes HIS personal reasons for walking away and tells everyone else they should apply to THEM, too. Eveyone's situation is different.
And then he turns around and tell low time pilots to get on at the first regional they can find.
And I'm left shaking my head...
If I can do it, have a successful flying career, who am I to say to the next guy he shouldn't? It makes sense that Skyhigh has his views. Where I draw the line is he takes HIS personal reasons for walking away and tells everyone else they should apply to THEM, too. Eveyone's situation is different.
And then he turns around and tell low time pilots to get on at the first regional they can find.
And I'm left shaking my head...
03-31-2008, 12:30 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
Who says I'm not thankful? I think part of my problem with Skyhigh's viewpoint is that I HAVE had such a successful career. Call it luck if you want, there is a lot more too it than just that (perserverence, good choices, ect...)
If I can do it, have a successful flying career, who am I to say to the next guy he shouldn't? It makes sense that Skyhigh has his views. Where I draw the line is he takes HIS personal reasons for walking away and tells everyone else they should apply to THEM, too. Eveyone's situation is different.
And then he turns around and tell low time pilots to get on at the first regional they can find.
And I'm left shaking my head...
If I can do it, have a successful flying career, who am I to say to the next guy he shouldn't? It makes sense that Skyhigh has his views. Where I draw the line is he takes HIS personal reasons for walking away and tells everyone else they should apply to THEM, too. Eveyone's situation is different.
And then he turns around and tell low time pilots to get on at the first regional they can find.
And I'm left shaking my head...
"good choices..." Tell them what those choices were. What led you down the path tat ended up working out so great for you? What *bad* choices were put in front of you? Did you have a mentor - a forum to ask for and receive advice?
When I read this thread I certainly feel that it is clear that SkyHigh made personal choices to leave the business and he has shared some of those reasons in case anyone else is in the same situation; but for the vast majority I'd say that people would rather hear you talk about HOW you did make this business into a success.
USMCFLYR
03-31-2008, 02:47 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 210
de727ups,
You made some good decisions, but you got where you are by shear luck. To be as senior as you are at UPS you went there when it was not considered desirable and was at best the 6th consensus choice in careers. Maybe I am wrong, maybe you are one of the few that bleeds Brown. I know some over there. Kind of like the guys at Southwest before 2000, some true believers and a lot of "it's better than where I am at" folks. The only way we know if we made the right decisions is when we look back on our careers. I am at NetJets because I wanted my next job to be with a industry leader with a sustainable business model and happy pilot group. I was turned down by two of my choices and NetJets made me an offer. To be honest, it is a good fit, but I didn't know how good a fit until the interview and saw the type company NetJets is up close. My experience here has confirmed what I saw in the interview. The timing? I am very fortunate on the timing of my hire here. That is not my fault nor my credit, just the timing of this industry.
You are disingenous to suggest your choices alone made you successful and very cold to suggest SkyHigh's choices are the cause of his rough ride in the industry. How about the TWA guys who were hired 20 years ago? The Aloha guys today? The USAir guys hired 15 years ago? The Braniff and Eastern guys hired in the early 70's? The guys who entered the market at a time when no one was hiring and their families had to eat? You get the point. Or I guess their poor choices caused their problems in life.
Like I said, very disingenous at best. Cold and callous at worst. And from your continued posts, unapologetic and personal throughout. Others get their posts moderated when levelling treatment of that sort. What about a moderator? Perhaps an apology? Or at least encouragement to the new guys they can fight through that first furlough (Independence)? That second one too?
Food for thought because it was getting a little deep in here.
You made some good decisions, but you got where you are by shear luck. To be as senior as you are at UPS you went there when it was not considered desirable and was at best the 6th consensus choice in careers. Maybe I am wrong, maybe you are one of the few that bleeds Brown. I know some over there. Kind of like the guys at Southwest before 2000, some true believers and a lot of "it's better than where I am at" folks. The only way we know if we made the right decisions is when we look back on our careers. I am at NetJets because I wanted my next job to be with a industry leader with a sustainable business model and happy pilot group. I was turned down by two of my choices and NetJets made me an offer. To be honest, it is a good fit, but I didn't know how good a fit until the interview and saw the type company NetJets is up close. My experience here has confirmed what I saw in the interview. The timing? I am very fortunate on the timing of my hire here. That is not my fault nor my credit, just the timing of this industry.
You are disingenous to suggest your choices alone made you successful and very cold to suggest SkyHigh's choices are the cause of his rough ride in the industry. How about the TWA guys who were hired 20 years ago? The Aloha guys today? The USAir guys hired 15 years ago? The Braniff and Eastern guys hired in the early 70's? The guys who entered the market at a time when no one was hiring and their families had to eat? You get the point. Or I guess their poor choices caused their problems in life.
Like I said, very disingenous at best. Cold and callous at worst. And from your continued posts, unapologetic and personal throughout. Others get their posts moderated when levelling treatment of that sort. What about a moderator? Perhaps an apology? Or at least encouragement to the new guys they can fight through that first furlough (Independence)? That second one too?
Food for thought because it was getting a little deep in here.
03-31-2008, 06:32 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"Others get their posts moderated when levelling treatment of that sort."
Naw, I don't think so. TOS violations and/or inappropriate posts get moderated. But if you ever have problems with the moderation at APC, HSLD or Freight Dog would love to hear about it.
"but for the vast majority I'd say that people would rather hear you talk about HOW you did make this business into a success"
I didn't quit when faced with adversity. Acually, I did, but it was for an ATC job for a year and then got back into flying. I took jobs which moved me up the ladder and when I got furloughed, I went looking for another job. I got turned down by CAL and World before I got hired at UPS. I'd have been happy with a career with either of those.
I wouldn't have played it the way Skyhigh did. I see no reason to not point that out when he bashes what has been, for me, and many others, a very good career. He was too picky at the wrong time, for reasons of his own, and walked away. I'd have taken the 757 time and got another job.
Naw, I don't think so. TOS violations and/or inappropriate posts get moderated. But if you ever have problems with the moderation at APC, HSLD or Freight Dog would love to hear about it.
"but for the vast majority I'd say that people would rather hear you talk about HOW you did make this business into a success"
I didn't quit when faced with adversity. Acually, I did, but it was for an ATC job for a year and then got back into flying. I took jobs which moved me up the ladder and when I got furloughed, I went looking for another job. I got turned down by CAL and World before I got hired at UPS. I'd have been happy with a career with either of those.
I wouldn't have played it the way Skyhigh did. I see no reason to not point that out when he bashes what has been, for me, and many others, a very good career. He was too picky at the wrong time, for reasons of his own, and walked away. I'd have taken the 757 time and got another job.
03-31-2008, 07:00 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
de727ups -
"I didn't quit when faced with adversity. Acually, I did, but it was for an ATC job for a year and then got back into flying. I took jobs which moved me up the ladder and when I got furloughed, I went looking for another job. I got turned down by CAL and World before I got hired at UPS."
Now see......much better advice.
I'd like to hear more about the choices afforded and why you made them.
I'm sure a lot of us will face similar decisions in the near future.
USMCFLYR
"I didn't quit when faced with adversity. Acually, I did, but it was for an ATC job for a year and then got back into flying. I took jobs which moved me up the ladder and when I got furloughed, I went looking for another job. I got turned down by CAL and World before I got hired at UPS."
Now see......much better advice.
I'd like to hear more about the choices afforded and why you made them.
I'm sure a lot of us will face similar decisions in the near future.
USMCFLYR
03-31-2008, 07:43 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
www.jetcareers.com/content/view/65/132/
Read this, then feel free to ask specific questions. You're still a little broad for me to go into great detail. I'm a busy guy, just ask Tim or Skyhigh. So much moderation to be done, so little time.....
Read this, then feel free to ask specific questions. You're still a little broad for me to go into great detail. I'm a busy guy, just ask Tim or Skyhigh. So much moderation to be done, so little time.....
03-31-2008, 08:01 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 919
I believe Skyhighs views are relevant, but wish they took a less strident form sometimes. If you read Don's paper above, or his posts, you realize he mentors youngsters. I also think it is something that Skyhigh bought a Cessna 150, to get current, and I for one was rooting for him. The pull of aviation is VERY strong. I am an example of Skyhighs route - took the great job, nice house, etc...but regret it almost everyday and would give my eyeteeth to get back in.
So, I think Don is correct to counter-point Skyhigh...but frankly, if someone reads Skyhighs scary posts and decides aviation is not for them...then it is probably a good thing, because the reality of the business would really destroy them.
So, I think Don is correct to counter-point Skyhigh...but frankly, if someone reads Skyhighs scary posts and decides aviation is not for them...then it is probably a good thing, because the reality of the business would really destroy them.
03-31-2008, 08:05 PM
#29
Administrator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: C-172
Posts: 8,024
03-31-2008, 09:31 PM
#30
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Lottery
Ask a lottery winner what they think about gambling and then ask someone at a recovery group and you will get two different answers. Perhaps the guys in gamblers anonymous just gave up too easily?
Aviation is about luck, contacts and determination. Miss any part of the three and you will fall short.
Eventually most of us will reach a point when we have reached our limit and must decide if we will cut our losses or risk any more of our limited resources on a long shot.
SkyHigh
Aviation is about luck, contacts and determination. Miss any part of the three and you will fall short.
Eventually most of us will reach a point when we have reached our limit and must decide if we will cut our losses or risk any more of our limited resources on a long shot.
SkyHigh
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