Russian carrier taking off with snow on wings
04-20-2012, 08:32 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 879
Regarding the argument from certification, perhaps the solution is to get aircraft certification to take off with some frost on the spoilers (given that if you have just a little frost, the spoilers are typically the first place it will show up.
04-21-2012, 11:03 AM
#42
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: MD11 Captain
Posts: 4
Heavy rain will do the same.
Regarding the argument from certification, perhaps the solution is to get aircraft certification to take off with some frost on the spoilers (given that if you have just a little frost, the spoilers are typically the first place it will show up.
Regarding the argument from certification, perhaps the solution is to get aircraft certification to take off with some frost on the spoilers (given that if you have just a little frost, the spoilers are typically the first place it will show up.
.The 'stunt' shown on the video is just plain stupid IMHO. The wing was far from being clean - even after liftoff; there was still plenty of snow.
04-21-2012, 12:01 PM
#43
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Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 879
Well, maybe that will come one day. But as long as that is not the case, I will stick to the SOPs and the 'clean wing concept'. Better safe than sorry, especially on the less forgiving MD11 I fly .
The 'stunt' shown on the video is just plain stupid IMHO. The wing was far from being clean - even after liftoff; there was still plenty of snow.
.The 'stunt' shown on the video is just plain stupid IMHO. The wing was far from being clean - even after liftoff; there was still plenty of snow.
04-27-2012, 11:30 AM
#47
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Posts: 879
05-02-2012, 12:25 PM
#48
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Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 433
Seems like the PF knew it was a risk, and deliberately rotated well beyond a normal Vr and climbed very shallow. Also, the flaps stayed down for the whole video which seemed like a long time. Not defending these pilots, but who knows, maybe there was no deicing available, or the airline couldn't pay the bill. I'm glad I don't have to fly in Russia.
05-03-2012, 04:44 AM
#49
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 72
Only in terms of the impact on safety. A little frost on the spoilers has about the same impact on safety margins as a reduced thrust takeoff, and a whole lot less than taking off in rain or with deicing fluid on the wing.
You think so? Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=925MgqyU2NA&sns=em
You think so? Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=925MgqyU2NA&sns=em
You posted the same video....
Sorry, maybe I should make this clearer.... The rest of the sane, professional, safety-minded, people-with-half-a-brain, etc. THANKFULLY do not agree with you. (and the fact that I had to spell that out for you is proof of the less-than-half-a-brain bit).
Your logic on flex t/o's is also laughable. Again, please post where you work so that we can all avidly avoid your carrier (although at this point I seriously doubt you are a pilot.... Leave the flying to the pros, plz.
).
Last edited by Ominous; 05-03-2012 at 05:05 AM.
05-03-2012, 12:50 PM
#50
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Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 879
Very observant of you.
What is laughable about it? Reduced thrust reduces the climb gradient somewhat, and in the event of an engine failure, it is reduced substantially. Are you really saying that having a lesser climb gradient is as safe as having a greater one? My point is that light frost has, and I quote, "has about the same impact on safety margins as a reduced thrust takeoff" (in reality, I would guess that light frost on the spoilers has no measurable effect, as the airflow is turbulent at that point anyway). Instead of responding with words like "drivel" and "laughable", how about something more substantive?
What is laughable about it? Reduced thrust reduces the climb gradient somewhat, and in the event of an engine failure, it is reduced substantially. Are you really saying that having a lesser climb gradient is as safe as having a greater one? My point is that light frost has, and I quote, "has about the same impact on safety margins as a reduced thrust takeoff" (in reality, I would guess that light frost on the spoilers has no measurable effect, as the airflow is turbulent at that point anyway). Instead of responding with words like "drivel" and "laughable", how about something more substantive?
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