This will DEFINITELY get ugly
06-01-2010, 10:49 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,502
I don't recognize you as someone who has the experience in this business to be preaching to anyone about "unions and strikes" I've been in the trenches and I have had the rug pulled from under me too many times, sorry if it stings a little but I believe is for your own growth. BTW your English is improving a bit, I can understand about 60% now
06-02-2010, 05:00 AM
#32
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 93
I've been in the trenches and I have had the rug pulled from under me too many times, sorry if it stings a little but I believe is for your own growth. BTW your English is improving a bit, I can understand about 60% now
I know about it . But I am not familiar with your way of thinking. You had shared so many news about flying in Asia, but dont you think that your way of thinking is a little bit emotional????? If you would be hired at a normal basis means you have a right to represent the airlines and be a member of the labor union, then you would not join a strike, because is fruitless. You can not be so emotional. In some part of Europe we disagree with the " contract " way of hiring the people in most of Europe, because it takes people no where not much decisions lower wages. Yes, really because we are not familiar that far. So, we are different at some point then yours is, honestly, the airlines you are at are not for us and you will never see me there or my capt brother just never. Yes, you can not be so emotional, since I believe that you are just part of the contract system and you can not make too much decisions. Honestly, never had heard of the contract system, that was a different one, so had asked the airlines at headquaters in Europe to take all the group at a carpet for further normal consideration, but dont you think that people may have some prejudices toward the airlines some nonsense prejudices like . Like some nonsense, ones. I do not have any further any more. Like ah we dont like them and etc.... Nobody came .My neighbor from the embassy said and a former pilot that the people can say many things except for one thing none of them has a right to represent US, means as a whole like division Europeans and others.... So, you represent your view, but others have different views, really there is no reason to support a strike which had not been discussed with a cockpit. Just think this way, I prefer our EU carpet you never tried to jump from a carpet you mentioned on sofa ??????????????What I really think is that sometimes I am tired of only one correct thinking, I never said that I am a great pilot. Yes, its confusing me to hear only these " teachings" , maybe I do not wish to hear these emotional responses, you never tried to jump on a solid sofa? I jumped with the entire group, for me the airlines is a politics. That always going to be this way.Yes, I like to jump from a carpet on sofa. Especially at a castle.Melu
I know about it . But I am not familiar with your way of thinking. You had shared so many news about flying in Asia, but dont you think that your way of thinking is a little bit emotional????? If you would be hired at a normal basis means you have a right to represent the airlines and be a member of the labor union, then you would not join a strike, because is fruitless. You can not be so emotional. In some part of Europe we disagree with the " contract " way of hiring the people in most of Europe, because it takes people no where not much decisions lower wages. Yes, really because we are not familiar that far. So, we are different at some point then yours is, honestly, the airlines you are at are not for us and you will never see me there or my capt brother just never. Yes, you can not be so emotional, since I believe that you are just part of the contract system and you can not make too much decisions. Honestly, never had heard of the contract system, that was a different one, so had asked the airlines at headquaters in Europe to take all the group at a carpet for further normal consideration, but dont you think that people may have some prejudices toward the airlines some nonsense prejudices like . Like some nonsense, ones. I do not have any further any more. Like ah we dont like them and etc.... Nobody came .My neighbor from the embassy said and a former pilot that the people can say many things except for one thing none of them has a right to represent US, means as a whole like division Europeans and others.... So, you represent your view, but others have different views, really there is no reason to support a strike which had not been discussed with a cockpit. Just think this way, I prefer our EU carpet you never tried to jump from a carpet you mentioned on sofa ??????????????What I really think is that sometimes I am tired of only one correct thinking, I never said that I am a great pilot. Yes, its confusing me to hear only these " teachings" , maybe I do not wish to hear these emotional responses, you never tried to jump on a solid sofa? I jumped with the entire group, for me the airlines is a politics. That always going to be this way.Yes, I like to jump from a carpet on sofa. Especially at a castle.Melu
Last edited by MeLu; 06-02-2010 at 06:44 AM.
06-08-2010, 08:20 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 910
Koru - I agree with just about everything you say.
I do believe that we need to be mindful that in a global marketplace we need to watch what battles we fight. We have seen what happened to the Jalways pilots. We have even seen what happened to Continental in the 80s during the dark days of Frank Lorenzo. The union was broken and it took over a decade for some strikers to regain their jobs. Australia was a prime example of a union leading it's members into a battle they could not win. The list goes on. As a pilot group you have to have the leverage to counter the greater inherent strength of management. And you have to make it clear to management that it is cheaper to settle than to take a strike.
During the 90s the TWA flight attendents went on strike. ALPA could not honor that strike due to a no strike provision they had with Carl Icahn, a provision that was a condition of Icahn thwarting Lorenzo's theat to take over TWA. The TWA F/As were replaced in a month, ironicaly those same TWA F/As now threaten to cross an American Airlines picket line should the American F/As go out because the TWA f/As were dumped on the street after the TWA/AA merger.
There are very few times when pilots and cabin crews have common interests and the BA case is certainly not one of them.
I do believe that we need to be mindful that in a global marketplace we need to watch what battles we fight. We have seen what happened to the Jalways pilots. We have even seen what happened to Continental in the 80s during the dark days of Frank Lorenzo. The union was broken and it took over a decade for some strikers to regain their jobs. Australia was a prime example of a union leading it's members into a battle they could not win. The list goes on. As a pilot group you have to have the leverage to counter the greater inherent strength of management. And you have to make it clear to management that it is cheaper to settle than to take a strike.
During the 90s the TWA flight attendents went on strike. ALPA could not honor that strike due to a no strike provision they had with Carl Icahn, a provision that was a condition of Icahn thwarting Lorenzo's theat to take over TWA. The TWA F/As were replaced in a month, ironicaly those same TWA F/As now threaten to cross an American Airlines picket line should the American F/As go out because the TWA f/As were dumped on the street after the TWA/AA merger.
There are very few times when pilots and cabin crews have common interests and the BA case is certainly not one of them.
The whole point of strength in unity is to taking a collective risk so that all interests are protected. If any weaknesses are shown, or commitment questioned, then the whole thing will easily come apart. The US pilot market is experiencing this first hand... as we get pared into smaller and smaller groups pitted against each other. They are winning the battle, and using pilots' own sense of superiority and egotism as the fuel.
Any labor action that is put down by management is bad news for pilots. Regardless of whether or not you think it's a qualified "battle" or whether you think you're immune due to your specialized training.
We are all just cogs in the machine... and they are constantly looking for ways to undermine the strength of unity.
I, for one, am hoping that the BA FA's have a victory. It would be nice to see some positive gains made in this industry for a change.
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