hummingbear

a few questions about scheduling at emirates:

1. is there a seniority based bid, or does the company just assign flight schedules for the bid period? how much autonomy do you have over your schedule?

2. how do reserve schedules work? are reserves typically junior pilots?

3. what are pilots' schedules like, in general? (i realize this is a fairly broad question.) how many days per month do pilots typically spend at home?

4. is there any consideration for layovers in parts of the world (afghanistan, pakistan, etc.) which might be more dangerous for westerners, or is this not a consideration when assigning trips?

5. finally, (and a bit off topic) what are travel benefits like at emirates? does the airline have a lot of zed agreements, and who is eligible for travel benefits? (immediate family only? parents? buddy passes? etc.)

thanks!

yankiwi

I'll give them a shot...

1. Bid seniority runs in 5 month cycles, when hired you will be assigned group 1-5. So one month you're bottom bid, 5 months later you're top bid. Seniority within your group exists too. So as a new hire in your bottom bid month you are the true bottom. In top bid as a new hire you should have 4/5ths of the guys below you for that months bid.
Bidding is through an Adopt/PBS type program. As to how much input you have, it varies.. right now bottom bid group I get nothing I bid for, top group I will get 50-75% of what I ask for. Company does what it needs though, and currently likes to put a duty on right before/after leave and generally mess up the potential benefits of this kind of bid software.

2. Everyone gets 5 weeks of reserve per year.. kinda. Can also get a random week put on your roster too. Your 5 weeks is known to you in advance and 'should' be in your bottom bid month.

3. Rosters (schedules) suck at the moment. Not enough pilots.. Boeing guys are running 90+ per month, but generally more productive long hauls. Bus guys are doing maybe 70-80 hours with a lot of shorter unproductive turns. 8-10 days off right now. As a newbie if you get the bus you will be 330 only for a year at least, and that type does a LOT of night turns. Once 340 qualled the roster gets better at the moment.

4. Layovers in the axis of evil hotspots don't really happen! Due to the geographic location most of the dodgy destinations are turns.

5. Travel is OK. ZEDS on most airlines. ID90 standby and ID 50 firm on EK. Bennies to your family/parents/siblings. With a few more types for distant relatives like uncles etc. Decent, but not really cheap and flights are full anyways. For an idea, standby one way to the US is about 800dhs in business, about 2000dhs for a firm ticket. No buddy passes or jumpseat.

Hope it helps. Think long and hard before accepting a position here. Its not like the recruiters will say its like. Lots of reading out there about the realities.

hummingbear

good info, thanks for your time. are the trips mostly built as four days, three days, locals, a mix of the above, etc.?

yankiwi

Trips are a mix. Lots of turnarounds, ranging from short duties with 40min sectors, through to long 9+ hour days(nights!) going to ATH/DAC/NBO/South India and back.
Most layovers are 24 hours. So Europe/Africa/Asia stuff usually turns out as a long 2 day or short 3 day trip. Some exceptions with longer layovers here and there. The West coast US and IAH have 48 hour layovers right now (All 777 flights), so they are more like 4 days. There are a few longer trips on both the 777/Bus to Australia/NZ. 6 days on the bus and I think the Boeing still has a long 9 day trip with layovers in Asia and Oz...

No real average, but most months I get a mix of a few layovers and a few turnarounds. More turns in bottom bids, generally at night, and more layovers in top bid as I prefer them so I bid for them.

hummingbear

a follow up on this...

sounds like you're pretty unhappy with the scheduling. are there other things you feel were promised/suggested by recruiters that have not been made good on? any place you'd suggest going to find the "reading about the realities" you suggested? appreciate the input.

hummingbear

...additionaly, if any of you americans over at emirates have a wife who wouldn't mind swapping a couple of emails with mine, that would be really great- she's looking for sort of a general overview from the +1 perspective.

yankiwi

Take a look at the middle east forum on pprune. Lots of info there. Keep in mind some guys posting there are professional whiners.. but 80-90% of the stuff is accurate and true.

As for a list of things that weren't as promised.. well it would be a lot shorter to list what went right than wrong... Needless to say, do as much research as you can. Visit Dubai with the wife and have a good look around, ask lots of questions. I'm on my way out of there so I don't have a very good opinion of the place, but each to there own, just go in with your eyes wide open and get your own answers.

Dune

yankiwi:

Excellent posts with "just the facts ma'am". Well done and all the best on your "escape". Out of interest, how long did you last?


hummingbear:

Things I would add to previous:

-Pprune is good for getting the general feel for how guys think about Emirates. Lots of whining on the site but believe me, the old saying "where there is smoke; there is fire" fits the various complaints well.

-I would say generally what people are having "issues" with is:

a) lack of respect from management toward the pilots (no unions, no representation, no professional courtesy, no employment law, no say). Get used to being lied to in such an "undisguised" manner (without recourse) that it will make your blood boil.

b) lack of control over their lives (at both the "country" and "company" level). The company controls your life (where you live, where you can afford to send your kids to school, what sort of medical treatment you/your family will receive, how often you will be able to get back to see your family, etc). The country controls what you see on TV, what you read on the internet and how you are REQUIRED to act in public.

c) fatigue due to the type of flying we do. Multi time zones combined with night turn arounds with minimal days off to recover.

d) environmental issues (summer heat and lack of things to do for families). Think living in a blast furnace with humidity for 4 months....nothing like this in the U.S. even in the southwest.

e) lack of pay (given the loss of income over the years; you come to the desert for a reason and it is not the great weather....it's the money....which has evaporated the past 5 years given the changes in our terms and conditions). Those that come to Emirates generally left "good" jobs, family and friends for the promise of a quick upgrade and good pay. Neither of these occur so it leaves many wondering why they came.

All this puts tremendous pressure on wives, kids, etc. Divorce rate is WAY up in Emirates over the past 3 years.

Not trying to be downbeat; just trying to add to the picture. I still think it is an "ok" job but I would not come here now unless I was either in a "dead-end" airline with no future prospects, unemployed or inexperienced and looking to "feather the logbook".

I'm sure others might be able to provide additional.

RickJames

Thanks for the information - appreciate the candor and good luck wherever the winds take everyone.

I declined an interview 3 years ago and just this past month I've received 2 emails encouraging me to update my file "as to shortlist" - the syntax of the email is kind of vague to me.

My take is that they need pilots mostly due to growth.

That tour would be a hardship for me and I would have to weigh that with the question "is the hardship monetarily worth the pay/benefits and associated potential."

sunnfun

All good points.

I'd like to add the one-sided change to our contracts regarding the overtime. It is in my contract to get overtime pay above a ~78hr threshold. Naturally, at the time I've averaged about 75hrs a month.

Last year this "threshold" has been changed to ~92hrs a month. Since then I've been scheduled to an average of about 90hrs a month. I've effectively lost about $11,000 in overtime pay since then. Serious money.

Let alone the fatigue that flying 90+ hours a month for months after months induces.

Second, we are all assigned a "Annual Leave Destination". You receive a once-a-year positive space ticket for yourself, your wife and kids to that destinantion. That was also changed last year to "the nearest Emirates Destination". Basically they fly you to JFK, SFO, LAX or IAH and you can pay for your own tickets home. That can add up to some serious money, especially if you have annual leave around the holiday seasons.

Those were the biggest one sided deviations from a signed contract for me.